Components for Reloading

[sharpshooter94]

I am thinking about starting to reload. What should I buy along with the press and dies. Thanks

[Ol` Joe]

Before you buy anything else buy a good manual. Lyman, Speer, and Nosler are some good choices. The books will tell you what tools, and components you`ll need, plus offer tips and instruction on useing them properly.
If you can afford it buy two different manuals, they are a good investment in your new hobby.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

Oh Lord! Another Primer Hoarder! Ol' Joe gave advice for a good start.

Alan

[Badger]

sharpshooter94,

Yes, buy a current reloading manual and read it cover-to-cover, It will ground you in the basics and help you focus your questions here.

Second: Find a competent, safe reloader and let that experienced guy/girl guide you into the hands-on reloading techniques of case sizing, primer seating, powder charging, bullet seating, crimping, etc.

Many of us learned "by the seat of our pants" by reading the books and ruining cases, or getting them stuck, until we got the hang of it all. So, a good reloading manuaL, a very good mentor and you are on your way to stocking components and reloading your own..

Badger

[Joe Boleo]

I would add that you might want to check out a few local gun shops. These can be good sources of advice and perhaps some deals on used reloading equipment. Take care...
Joe

[LampLighter]

You won't find any primers, so go primer hunting before you buy anything else. You'll have to quit your job, and moniter the internet sales sites 24/7. You'll need speed keyboards too. That's what the Red Dawn hoarders do. Me, I have to work. I can't even get .22 milk cartons at Wal Mart. The Red Dawn people quit work and are staking out the Wal Mart 18 wheelers on I-12 daily.

[Altjaeger]

You won't find any primers, so go primer hunting before you buy anything else. You'll have to quit your job, and moniter the internet sales sites 24/7. You'll need speed keyboards too. That's what the Red Dawn hoarders do. Me, I have to work. I can't even get .22 milk cartons at Wal Mart. The Red Dawn people quit work and are staking out the Wal Mart 18 wheelers on I-12 daily.

and I thought the 9/11 conspiracy buffs were a bit loopy!:)

[Gil Martin]

True, the gun shops I visit have fewer selections of powder or primers and limit sales to 500 primers per customer. They have lots of shotgun components. So I get what I need and load what I want. Not as good as the old days, but I will get by. All the best...
Gil

[LampLighter]

and I thought the 9/11 conspiracy buffs were a bit loopy!:)


Well, lets use the Reasonable Man Test. If a reasonable person, under like circumstances, looks at two different persons, being :

a) an individual who works at a job regularly every day and who when, he finally gets a break from work, seeks to go do a little recreational shooting on the weekend, but cannot find any ammo on the shelves

and

b) an individual who for whatever reason does not have to be at work, but diligently puts all of his or her time into learning the delivery times of sporting goods stores, and sees to it that he and his/her representatives are at the store when the incoming shipment is shelved, then buys large quantities of ammo and components , even though back home they have shelves full of it


Now I say, who would the reasonable man pick as to fitting the "loopy" script
Altjaeger describes ? I think it is pretty obvious.

[Altjaeger]

[QUOTE=LampLighter;6415You'll have to quit your job, and moniter the internet sales sites 24/7. You'll need speed keyboards too. That's what the Red Dawn hoarders do....The Red Dawn people quit work and are staking out the Wal Mart 18 wheelers on I-12 daily.[/QUOTE]

Lamplighter, I was laughing at the overstatement.

You may have a local situation thats rough. When I think to look at Walmart or Academy I am not going to say the shelves groan under the weight of ammo. There is usually few cartons or bricks of .22 LR and several boxes of .223/.308/.270/.30-06, .30-30 and .308. I certainly do not think anyone has quit their day job, is staking out the highways, hovering over the keyboard 16 hours a day, etc. though you may have moments you feel that way.

[LampLighter]

I think around here they are, especially the red necks over in Picayune, Ms. Back in the 80's, they were for sure burying mini 14's in pvc pipe.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I can buy a couple of bricks of 22 lr for $14.95 at WalMart any day of the week. Academy has plenty of ammo. It's a bit pricy still but it's there. My local component store has primers of all kinds now for $4/100 and will sell 400 at a time. Plenty to be had if anyone wants it or has a few extra bucks to buy it. I'd send you some Red, but it would probably break about ten laws to ship primers across State lines, not to mention that some Postal Service reloader would probably make off with them before they got to you, right?

Alan

[rimrock]

I am thinking about starting to reload. What should I buy along with the press and dies. Thanks

it depends mostly on what you plan to reload
I don,t think you can go wrong with the basic RCBS SINGLE STAGE

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000449356

if your just doing a few rifle and pistol calibers
or the DILLON 650 if you plan on filling a few foot lockers with ammo

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/8/pkg_id/9

then youll need MANUALs (AT LEAST 3) so you can cross check

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000399237

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00144549

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000219515




and a decent scale and powder measure, and priming tool

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000449002

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000449073

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004490200

[Rugerman]

Yes primmers are a problem, also bullets and powder are in short supply here. I 've been to 2 gun shows in the last month, very few primers available did find some small rifle and some large & small magnum pistol primmers. Most of the powder was only available in 8 pound sizes. It is a rough time to start reloading. online sales are also short on most of the popular bullets.

[Hi Ball]

Now I have been to Wally Mart several times in the last few months for various things my wife wants to look at and in doing so I always manage to check out their ammo supply. I have seen very little of any type of ammo at any of our Wally Mart Super stores.

[Rugerman]

I went to a gun show in Montgomery, Ala today, very little reloading stuff, a few boxes of primmers (wolf) powder selection was slim lots of junk and high priced guns. Then I went to Walter Craig sporting goods store, they had primmers & powder but their prices were rather high ($5/100 for primmers with 1000 at the same rate. 8 lb IMR 4350 for $190) so I passed.

[Hi Ball]

Sharpshooter, I will convey the words of others on this forum by telling you once again to first purchase a good "Reloading Manual" (hardbound book) such as Nosler's or Hornady's ok.

They read those chapters several times, so you know how to look for things like pressure signs. In other words make sure you read all those things that cover SAFETY and the PRO'S & CON'S or reloading before you invest your money.

You will want to know the differences between a single stage press and a turret press. I myself preferred the RCBS line of reloading tools and used a Rock Chucker for years. However, if you want to reload a lot of ammo in a hurry, then you will need to look at Dillion Presses or the newer Hornady Lock-N-Load press with Auto-Case Feed.

No matter what you spend or how you set up your reloading bench etc, you will pay for the press and additional tools within a year if you shoot much at all.........Now go have some fun!!!:D

[billt]

If you want to buy ammunition when everyone else does, you simply have to work at it harder. This includes more phone calls to more stores to find out if they have in stock whatever it is you want.

I get a kick out of people who call other people "hoarders" simply because they buy more ammo because they shoot more. Guns are useless without ammo, and the more you have the more useful they become, and the more often you can enjoy using them.

There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who put forth the effort, whatever that effort may be, to secure whatever it is they need. And others who bitch and moan about what these people do, because they think in some abstract way it prevents them from doing the same.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8337/9mmammo.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6819/9mmammocabelas.jpg

None of this stuff walked up to my front door and rang the bell. I had to look for it. It's not the reason others don't have ammo. It is the reason I do. Bill T.

[Wismon]

There are 2 kinds of people in this world. Those who put forth the effort, whatever that effort may be, to secure whatever it is they need. And others who bitch and moan about what these people do, because they think in some abstract way it prevents them from doing the same.
Bill, that was awesome! Adam Smith would be proud...;):cool:

[rimrock]

I find it amazing that many guys don,t reload.
Ive consistently found it to be well worth the expense of buying the correct tools and components, as the tools soon pay for themselves.
now I can easily understand how a beginning re loader may not think spending $350-$800 on a decent reloading bench full of tools before he makes his first cartridge, is wasting that money vs buying the $350-$800 on loaded ammo, but once you get into loading, you'll quickly find (if you keep records)that the price of ammo per box can drop noticeably.
now If you shoot less than a couple hundred cartridges a year you might not want to bother, but if your running thru several boxes every other weekend it quickly pays for itself.

example
lets say you have a common, 30/30 lever action to feed and want to have a couple hundred cartridges on hand for emergency's.

local prices where IM at are about $20 a box and a quick look on line , shows that with shipping charges added thats a good price, your not likely to beat by a large margin

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/15747-5.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/65175-5.html
thats a dollar per cartridge currently, so a thousand loaded cartridges costs about $1000

reloading
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0005023021
1000 NEW cases $300, these can be reused 5-7 times easily
1000 bullets at about $21 per hundred cost $210
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000033060
8 lbs of powder currently about $150
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00034IMR30318
primers about $26 per thousand
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000200011
or about $670 for components, on the first batch, and $370 on the next 5-7 thousand reloads, for components
I already posted the presses etc, but basically you can reload the first thousand for about what the loaded ammo costs or less including the tool costs, and save about 1/2 the cost on the next 5000-7000 cartridges, and if you can pick up brass at the range or buy good used reloading tools , expenses drop off fast
get into bullet casting and practice ammo could cost you only pennies a shot
IF you reload a caliber like 357 mag,41 mag,44 mag, 375 win, or 45/70 where hard cast bullets are an excellent choice for most uses than casting is a really good option and cuts cost significantly, one of my friends has used a 444 marlin or 45/70 for over 38 years now for all his hunting and never used anything but hard cast bullets in either rifle, BTW hard cast bullets tend to put LESS wear on rifling that jacketed bullets also.
at the current price of $410 per thousand, for brass its not cheap
http://www.starlinebrass.com/shopping_cart.php

but the brass lasts 10-12 reloads in a 45/70 if you anneal the necks, so its even cheaper than a 30/30 with hard cast bullets

[billt]

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/79/ammo4uy1.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/6236/ammunition556mmpq9.jpg

With the rising cost of ammunition over the last couple of years, many shooters are considering the alternative of reloading to help cut costs. A lot has been written about how much, if any, money is actually saved when everything is taken into account. This is a cost breakdown for the 2,350 rounds of .223 I finished loading several months back. A fellow on another forum, who was interested in reloading for his AR-15's had asked me. The brass I used was mixed headstamp. CCI, Remington, Winchester, Lake City, S&B, and a few others I'm forgetting. This brass was obtained from on line sources on the web. I processed it all the same. First I resized and deprimed all of it with a RCBS Small Base Sizing Die. Then I processed all of the primer pockets on my Dillon 600 Super Swage, because some of them were military with crimped primer pockets. I then trimmed all of them to uniform length on my Giraud Powered Case Trimmer. After that they went into the tumbler for several hours and received a polish with ground corn cob and Dillon Rapid Polish added to the media. The final step was to run it through my Dillon and crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die. They turned out very good. My total investment in this batch of .223 was:

Brass---------$20.00 total. (It was free, but I paid the shipping).

Powder-------$65.00 for 8 pounds of AA 2230C. (25.0 Gr. per load X 2,350 = 58,750 Gr. 58,750 divided by 7,000 Grains per pound = 8.39 pounds of powder total.)

Primers-------$59.38 for 2,350 primers @ $25.00 per thousand.

Bullets-------$172.21 (2,350 Winchester 55 Gr. FMJBT from Midway)

Boxes--------$52.00 for 100 boxes and trays from Midway. (Actually $26.00 because I used only 47.)

Grand Total = $342.59

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3376/remington1000rounds223ia8.jpg

By comparison the 1,000 rounds of Remington UMC FMJ in .223 pictured above cost me $371.00 delivered from Natchez, (9 months ago). Reloading can be extremely cost effective but you must find good sources, and buy in bulk. Here are 2 very good sources for brass, bullets, and powder. If you are willing to do a little Internet hunting, brass can be found quite inexpensively. It may require cleaning, and primer crimp removal, but tools to do that can be purchased cheaply, and the amount of time added to the operation as a whole isn't much.

www.gibrass.com

www.patsreloading.com

Now let's make some adjustments, then do the math to find out just how much, if anything, I really saved. Before we do that we need to make one critical adjustment. The $371.00 I paid for the 1,000 rounds of Remington UMC is LONG GONE. Rising fuel prices along with non ferrous metal prices have driven that number to new heights. Especially when you include shipping. If you buy locally, whatever you save in shipping you'll eat in sales tax. So it's pretty much tit for tat. The Glendale, Arizona Cabela's 2 miles from me as of last week, charges $10.00 a box of twenty for Remington UMC .223. Let's roll with that figure. Cabela's is a very large retailer, and while others might stock ammo a little cheaper, Cabela's most always has it in stock which is important because you can't very well buy what a store doesn't have when you need it. So, using Cabela's $10.00 a box of twenty price for Remington UMC 55 Gr. FMJ .223 ammo that comes to:

$500.00 per 1,000 plus 8.1% Arizona sales tax. That's $540.50 per thousand. $540.50 X 2.35 = $1,270.17 for 2,350 rounds.

So as I type this it would cost me $1,270.17 to walk out of Cabela's with the same 2,350 rounds of .223 that cost me a grand total of $342.59.

Now let's do the math.

$1,270.17 - $342.59 = $927.58 Savings over what it would cost me right now to buy the exact same thing 2.5 miles from my home from one of the biggest shooting and hunting retailers in the country.

Now let's talk time.

Resize and deprime all 2,350 cases....... 9 hours. (That's only 4.3 cases a minute, but I'm 57, and not the fastest guy when I reload.)

I tumbled all 2,350 cases over 2 nights while I slept. Adding the time to install plus remove 3 loads, (I use a Dillon FL-2000).......2 hours. Again I'm slow.

Run all 2,350 rounds through my Dillon Progressive.......Approx. 300 rounds per hour. Yeah, I know they say 500 to 600 rounds per hour, but that's not very realistic. You have to include refilling powder measures and primer tubes, plus taking a break once and a while. 2,350 Divided By 300 R.P.H. = 7.83 hours. But let's be generous and call it 9 hours.

My wife has nimble fingers and she enjoys boxing and labeling them for me, but I'll toss in another 3 hours for that as well to keep things on the up and up. So, the grand total in time invested runs:

9 Hours (Resize and deprime)

2 Hours (Putting in and removing from tumbler)

9 Hours (Yanking the handle on the Dillon)

3 Hours (Labeling & Boxing)
.................................................. ...........

23 HOURS TOTAL

$927.58 Savings Divided By 23 Total Hours = $40.33 PER HOUR.

$40.33 per hour is a damn good wage, let alone getting it for doing something you enjoy in the comfort of your own home.

So in conclusion I would say reloading is still worth it, but you must buy your components wisely, and use good equipment. As for "earning" $40.33 per hour doing it. Let's just call that icing on the cake. That cake will get more and more "frosted", as ammo prices just keep getting more and more expensive. And rest assured THEY WILL! Bill T.

[Hi Ball]

Bill-T, Now that is one very well put together post on the cost of reloading and the true facts of reloading a large quantity of brass. People often forget you have to "clean brass" and clean primer pockets etc. Why just checking over the brass and sorting things from good or bad takes time too.

I have spoke to Brain Enos about reloading on the Dillion and the figures are just a wee bit inflated to the actual time it takes to run a 1000 rounds from start to finish.

I am going to make a copy of your post and give it to some friends of mine who are contemplating reloading their own ammo. I have told them the pro's and con's but I think reading your post would put things into more of a perspective for them perhaps. Great Post Bill~:cool::)

[billt]

I think in time brass cased ammunition will be only available in the higher priced ammo. We're already seeing it. Aluminum with CCI Blazer, and steel with Wolf, Herters, and now even Hornady in their 7.62 X 39 MM. Brass is simply becoming too expensive.

The biggest issue for the manufacturers is the change over in tooling. It requires many more progressive dies to draw cases from steel than it does brass. Die maintenance is also costlier. But as the cost of brass continues to rise, the change over will make more and more economic sense to these ammunition manufacturers. It will also require firearms manufacturers to change extractor material and hardness. Steel is far harder on extractors than brass. Many shooters like myself avoid it for this reason, and also because it is totally worthless for reloading.

I scrounge every piece of usable brass I can find from the range. I look at this like Silver coins in the early 60's. No one saved them, except for people like my mother. When she died in 1984 she had coffee cans filled with them. She saw the change coming to cheaper coinage. The very same will happen to cartridge brass. All in due time. Bill T.

[Alan R McDaniel Jr]

I keep every bit of brass I can get also. When I can rake up a handful of 22 lr casings I throw them in the brass box. All brass gets recycled either on the press or at the salvage yard. All copper is the same. There is some #1 copper that I have stored in 55 gal drums.

I realize this is not exactly on topic but I wander around sometimes. Brass is going to be expensive and going to steel cases is certainly one way to put old fashioned reloaders out of business.

Alan