Just finished a Nice Carrier System

[LampLighter]

A 14 Seer system using R410a refrigerant. Also the Carrier N coil high efficiency with custom made sheet metal plenum and transition to the furnace. Put it in a lady's condo. Very nice. Awsome unit that kicks butt in this 98 degree temp. That 14 seer is not phased by extreme outside temps, and her electric bill will now go way down.

This was Carrier's Comfort series, mdl 24acb436 and coil # cnphp3617ata

[ncboman]

cool. :D

[Bushman]

I've been using mother natures air conditioning so far this year. I open a few windows and the screened patio door over night when it gets down into the 50's and 60's, then close up the house during the day. AC cost goes to zero that way. People think that insulation is only for keeping heat in for the winter. It works the same way for keeping cold in during the summer.

[DaveHawk]

With out pictures it never happened LOL

[billt]

I guess this is the place to ask. We bought our house new back in 1997 so our A/C system is in it's 12th year. Here in Arizona an A/C system gets far more use in the Summer than the temperate climates. It runs constantly from late April until well into October. All of the homes in my area were built at the same time, and I'm noticing about 50% of my neighbors have replaced their system, so it's safe to say I'm pretty much on borrowed time.

I'm wondering, of course, what it will run me? I have zero experience with A/C systems. I'm sure what I have is a "builder grade" unit that is not very energy efficient. I know the better the unit, the more you save. However I'm told that some of the really top flight units like a Trane T-19 can run well into 5 digits, and I'm wondering if that much can be recouped through the years in energy savings. I'm also told the better more efficient units will get you a government tax credit??? My furnace is a small gas fired unit in the attic that is used very little. It should outlive me.

My house is one level and around 1,650 Sq. Ft. For you guys that know about these things, what do you think a new, energy efficient, high SEER rated system will run installed? Bill T.

[LampLighter]

Get the model number off of the current outside unit so we know what tonnage you have. Alot of factors go into figuring btuh of heat gain, but no need to freak out and get technical. I'm guessing 3 1/2 ton, but 3 would work with good insul. , double pane windows, and it being a fairly new construction. Get the number and we'll use that. Just because it runs alot doesn't mean it is too small. You probably don't have alot of condenser coil, and what you have is probably dirty. The whole thing is probably 8 or 10 seer, so get the info I ask for and disregard the fact that it runs alot.

I sell Carrier for my high end, and alot of Goodman for mid-grade. Sometimes I sell Rheem, but the warranty is not there for Rheem. Trane is just a name that is heard alot, due to heavy advertisment, like Glock.

For a Carrier 14 seer system, 80% gas furnace, evap cooling coil ultra-high efficiency, outside unit 14 seer, and copper tubing change, all uses the refrigerant R410a, 3 1/2 ton, I could probably do that for $8000.00, possibly less in the mid 7k's. I would have to visit the job, but that price is close. That includes a new sheet metal plenum up to 4 foot and all new start collars. If you have hard round metal ducts, it would be a little more for a couple bags of flex to adapt the first 3 feet of each to flex. I may be able to use your existing copper tube IF it is the right size. I would flush it with special r11 flush and nitrogen chaser. Otherwise, new tubing through the soffit and down the outside wall. I have been hiding them lately by getting a gutter downspout from Home Depot, cutting the back out and covering the tubing.

[LampLighter]

To get the $1500.00 tax credit, you will need to step up to the 95% furnace. The Carrier Infinity system in either 17 or 21 seer. That system would run somewhere around 11 to 12 K. I would have to see the job to be more accurate. The 95% furnace requires combustion air be piped to it. No big deal. An 1 1/2 " pvc pipe from the furnace to outside air. How big of a deal is heat in AZ ? It may not be worth it.

Goodman would run somewhat less . Don't let ol stigma fool you on Goodman. They were energy eaters back in the 90's but all that is changed. Alot of contractors run & go, cutting corners on install and blame the brand when it fails to perform to expectations. I've seen kinked copper, overheated expansion valves, poor duct work, and more.

[Bushman]

Lamplighter, I was hoping that you would be around today, but I held off so that you could address Bill T's problem.

Quick question if I may, one of my tenants called last night to say that the Carrier AC will not run. Actually the unit outside does turn on, but the Carrier furnace, a ten year old Weathermaker 9200 Model 58 MXA blower will not turn on to distribute the AC. When the thermostat is switched from cool to heat to where it should turn on, it does not go on either. I'll call in service tomorrow, but it sounds like a blower motor or a switch to me. The power switch to the furnace is in the on position. What does that sound like to you? What is the parts and labor warranty period on those upper end Carriers? It should be gone over anyhow prior to the heating season. Thanks.

[LampLighter]

blower motor relay, blower motor, or capacitor. Relay costs us about 11 dollars. Motor costs about 75 to 95 dollars. A capacitor is about 3 dollars.

Labor warranty is 1 year by the contractor. Parts usually 5 or 10 year. 10 on high end.

[Altjaeger]

LL Bill will be able to be more detailed as I left that area 23 years ago and memory can embellish over time . To give you an idea in February 1986 we had a very unussual week of 90 plus degree weather causing us to run the AC. Typically he can be hitting 100 degrees almost daily by mid to late April and run to mid October.July and August will have norms of 110-115. Late July and August will have the "monsoons" which is not really rain so much as approximately 40% humidity. Winter temps will run about 10-15 degrees higher than you or I might experience.

Out of curiousity I Just checked. Next few days highs are around 110 and lows at night upper 80s. Humidity at 3:30 (the stay on standard time) is 46%.

[LampLighter]

In that case, he really needs to focus on the A/C side, and not worry about the heat. That will drop him out of the tax credit, but I think it is far better to get what you need.

Based on Alt's script. of weather in that area, BillT you need a 2 stage condenser at least 17 seer or higher. They don't come in 1/2 tons in Carrier. You could get the 4 ton and it will operate most of the time on stage 1 which will be around 2 tons. If the heat pours on, like a kid leaves the door open or chases Sam in & out, the controller will detect it and switch to 2nd stage, pull it down to with in 2 or 3 degrees of what you set it at, then it will drop down to 1st stage and the variable speed blower in the furnace will pitch down to a slower speed. The unit will finish it off to the set point in that stage. The benefit of that two stage is that the lower stage/slower blower speed combo is a superior humidity remover. You will feel like you are in Canada; a dry cool. Awsome equipment. I recommend the Infinity system, 17 or 21 seer Carrier, 80% variable speed furnace, and the cnphp coil.
I installed the 17 seer system this summer- whole thing furnace & all, 3 ton for 8k. That included a $750 sub-contract fee for the crew. I stay with them . I never leave. But I am cheap. Nobody nowhere no how will give you a 3 ton Infinity 2 stage system for 8K. I walked away with over 2k :D

[Bushman]

Lamplighter, is a Carrier 325878-751 circuit board a $318. part? A 2.25 hour service call, that blown circuit board due to a clogged air filter and pressure switch HK 06NB 124 for another $46.50 plus cleaning ran $636.84 which was kind of a biter. Does that sound reasonable?

I've only needed to change out those filters once a year before these people moved in, but if a plugged $30. air intake filter can take out a $318. circuit board, it looks like twice a year filters are in their future. Kids must raise more dust and make for more laundry that puts more lint in the air. These same people plugged up the vents on the water heater a few months back that cost me a new water heater when the gas company red flagged it.

[LampLighter]

That board should have an HK type # for it. I take it you have gas heat judging from the pressure switch. Those boards do fail, but I doubt the failure had anything to do with the air filter being dirty. That seems a little high for the board. They usually run between 35 and 125 dollars.

All and all, the guy seems a little high, but he really didn't take you to the cleaners. What kind of cleaning did he do ? Chemical clean coils ? Vacuum burner rust dust ? What cleaning ?

[Bushman]

LL, I guess I don't know for sure what kind of cleaning as I was not there.
The invoice says:

"Found circuit board not powering blower. Replaced circuit board.
Cleaned burners, flame sensor.
Drains and trap-ok.
Blower and motor-ok.
Venting-ok.
Heat exchanger-ok.
Run and test, found pressure switch not closing-replaced cycled ok.
Cleaned coils, electrical-ok.
Drains-ok"

He ran an electrical check and that checked out ok too.
Mostly he just wrote that the thing was "ok".
That circuit board did not have an HK on it in his description, but in looking at it again, I see that it was $360. not $318. as it was run together. That does look some high to me too.

I appreciate your expert input. Thanks.

[LampLighter]

It seems that he marked the board up. A variable speed furnace board might run that high, but not a regular psc type motor/board setup.

[greenjeans]

You made a post to brag about an air conditioner you installed????????????? And then brag carriers name.

Well Ive installed Carriers, Lenox, Train, Armstrong air, goodman, Heil, weatherking, Payne, Rheem, American standard, Aire Flo, Amana, York, Bryants and a few others.

And I can conclude I partial to carriers. But Trains are number 1 in popularity and sell more than the number 2 followed carrier units.

I got a question lamplighter now I dont do too much service but from everyone one of my friends who work for different furnace companies they all HATE HATE HATE carriers to service And i was just thinking why? Are they really that much harder to work on??? Dont get me wrong but i always thought Lenox pulses were a pain on the Keister to either cary up the stairs or service.

And Bill T you live in Arizona have you given any thought to a heat pump? The new Carrier units are a big improvment to what the heat pump use to be.

[LampLighter]

Payne = junk
Amana= Goodman- good stuff
Heil, ComfortMaker, Tempstar, Arcoaire are all Carriers.
WeatherKing = Rheem- not a bad unit
Trane = American Standard- both high end equipment


Carrier units are the most service friendly units you will find.

You are correct in that Lennox is the most un-necessarily electronic technical as they come.

Trane is the most popular because it is the NAME you hear the most. They spend alot on Advertisement. It is psychological. Just like Glock handguns. People who know Nothing about handguns, when seeking to buy one instinctively flock to the Glocks, because it is a name ingrained into their mind via advertisement. Same as Trane A/C.

[greenjeans]

I agree with you on not likeing paynes but they are part of the carrier family. Tranes are most popular due to advertising like you said but i believe that the carrier family is the most popular if you combine them all.

Now Goodmans actually have the most amount of problems leading to needing a new furnace installed.

Im installing a Fraser Johnson Furnace and A.c combo next week what do you think about them? I went to the special training seminar set up by johnson controls so we could be certified to install these new York models that are 98% effiecient basicly a sales pitch. And Fraser johnson should be the same as the york with cheaper parts i believe.

[LampLighter]

Those are sold under names of, Avcon, Grand Air, and Luxaire.

[ncboman]

So Goodmans are good or no?

I just saw a brand new Goodman at a job I looked at yesterday. :)

How about Williamson units?

That's what I have and it's been workin good for over 30yrs. :eek:

[greenjeans]

Well Goodmans have one hell of a waranty at least they do in my parts. But they do have the most problems leading to total failure. As for who has the most problems Eh i dont know for sure. They all have there share. Goodmans are fair priced units combined with there waranty A lot if people go with them.

You have a williamson furnace and a.c? 3o years thats a good unit you have in my book.

N.C. have you had your units checked over by a repuital heating and cooling company latley? I dont know if you have a furnace or just an air handler but the heat exchangers might rust or get wholes in em leading to carbon monoxide. If you do get it checked i would recomend watching them service it and damn sure if they say it has a crack have them prove it.

[LampLighter]

High end Goodmans are excellent. The SSX line of condensers, and the GMH8 line 2 stage furnace are both good quality. Goodman got a bad name back in the early 90's. Those tan colored units were energy eaters, and they still had piston compressors. All that is changed. Installation matters greatly with any brand.

Whatever brand lasts 30 years, it probably was top of the line IN THOSE DAYS. I bet it doesn't have a forced draft motor to force gas venting. So much technology has come along, and the new ones are better- especially the 2 stage furnaces. Rheem also makes some nice furnaces.

[ncboman]

My central ac is a Williamson.

I'm not sure about the furnace name off the top of my head. I haven't run my furnace in a couple years but I want to some this winter. I know it needs servicing. ... probably needs replacing but that ain't in the cards right now.

I gotta crawl under there and look at it. I can remake sheet metal parts myself. :rolleyes:

[LampLighter]

A Floor furnace :eek::eek: ?

[ncboman]

A Floor furnace :eek::eek: ?

not a floor furnace, it's just under the house. The ac unit sits on a slab just outside. Both use the same fan, ductwork, and thermostat. My old man had all of it installed back in the early 70's. As tight as he was, I doan think he skimped on the heating/cooling system.

[LampLighter]

You know, I'm wondering. :confused: I wonder where that guy Mikga is ? Remember him. He worked as an apartment complex maint. man.

[ncboman]

He went to Iraq and drove trucks. I'm unclear how but he hooked up with a new woman and is living in the Philippines(?) ,,, I think. :confused:

He posted once or twice sometime back and dropped off again. You were probably CQ then. :D

[LampLighter]

I am getting the run around on getting paid. Over a month now. Only $75 but I want it. I just sent my real estate lady connection an E mail telling her to advise the owner to pay up by 9/8/09 or I am going to file a lein with the city conveyance office. I'm fed up. At this point, I don't care if I blow a real estate connection. That is my one pet peeve that I get paid promptly. Usually I sit on checks for weeks, but that is my choice. I want payment NOW! :mad:

So, how do I file a mechanic lein ?

[ncboman]

I am getting the run around on getting paid. Over a month now. Only $75 but I want it. I just sent my real estate lady connection an E mail telling her to advise the owner to pay up by 9/8/09 or I am going to file a lein with the city conveyance office. I'm fed up. At this point, I don't care if I blow a real estate connection. That is my one pet peeve that I get paid promptly. Usually I sit on checks for weeks, but that is my choice. I want payment NOW! :mad:

So, how do I file a mechanic lein ?

over 75 bucks???

you need to do that. :D

I'd just keep sendin em bills. You can charge interest.