Aluminum framed 1911s- You likey?

[Bwana416]

I have been looking at (and drooling over) both the Kimber Custom Covert and the Crimson Carry. I just realized that BOTH have aluminum frames. A long time ago some 1911 fans decried alloy frames. :(

Have they gotten better? Does the weight reduction translate into much more punishing recoil? Any thoughts on the "SIS" model? That one is all steel.:confused:


-Ray

[stinky]

I'm thinking that 1911s have always had an alloy frame...which means that they are plenty strong.

[MOGC]

Some 1911 guns of all barrel lengths have alloy - others are steel frames. For a packing gun I really like the 4" alloy .45 ACP guns, the old Lwt. Commander type of gun. It packs easy, handles and points fast, and recoil isn't an issue for me. For really pounding the rounds downrange, the 5" steel frame is best. My favorite packing pistol for social use is a 1911 Kimber Tactical Pro stoked with Winchester Ranger T 230 hollowpoints. It has been a good gun for me with a couple issues early on that needed to be worked out. Since that time the gun has been flawless. Kimber says their alloy frame will go 20,000 rounds with no trouble. That is a lot of shooting on a dedicated packing pistol and when the time comes that I have a frame problem I figure I've got my money out of it.

[Bwana416]

I changed my avatar from the Custom Covert II to a SIS model. Still a Kimber and ALL steel. I mean to do a LOT of shooting and that means no tinker toy aluminum frames.:rolleyes:

-Ray

[bugsNbows]

Alloy has its place even though there are a lot of detractors / purists that decry its usage. Me, I'm into stainless. Kimbers are nice, but there are other choices. Dan Wesson (now a CZ company) makes a terrific CBOB and of course SA is a contender. For a high quality, value priced semi-custom, check out Fusion Firearms. Bob Serva used to be the President at Dan Wesson but left after the CZ buyout. He started Fusion a couple of years ago. That make beautiful weapons for decent prices (considering they ARE NOT production guns). For full customs (big $ I might add) check out Luke Volkmann's line. Eye candy for sure.

[Hi Ball]

Bwana416......You made a wise choice for years more service and NO cracked frames to deal with later.:)

[Bwana416]

The neat thing about the SIS is that is has EVERYTHING you normally have to pay extra for OR have a smith install (MORE labor). The finish is a metallic dark gray and the sights are tritium. IF sanity ever reigns in NY (HAH! with Mayor Doomsberg assassin of joy) and we get CCW I can add the Crimson Trace grips later.:)

-Ray

[Hi Ball]

Bawana.......Why those Crimson Trace sights? Now if your in a very dark place and turn that lazer red beam on, you will only see the beam on whatever it come in contact with etc. YOU will not see anybody but they will know where your at in a flash!

Also those lights are something that can go bad, break or get low when you need them 4 months down the road. Best to carry a good LED flashlight and have a set of "nite-sights" installed on your pistol. :)

[Bwana416]

As standard equipment. Hmmm. Also to get the laser grips to fit you have to delete the ambidextrous safety. 90% of us may shoot righty, but a gun with an ambi safety might be easier to unload years down the road?:cool:

-Ray

[MOGC]

Generally speaking laser sights are BS that you do not need and possible could get you killed. In training scenarios with guys armed with various weapons that fired some sort of simulated ammo and equipped with lasers, usually you can "kill" them fairly easily in a confrontation as they take that precious second or two to look for the red dot and get that lined up on their attacker. The entire time I, as the attacker, was putting rounds where they counted.

[Bwana416]

With all the hoopla over mounting lights ON handguns these days I have to think of it as a "Yankee search" on land. Only a fool uses active sonar in a tight spot not knowing if there's an enemy out there because it TELLS him WHERE you are. They use PASSIVE sensors.:)

If a laser gives you away then why not a light also? IF you need a light why not keep it ready to use IF needed and not advertise your exact location?:confused:


-Ray

[Hi Ball]

Is Hollowood taking over the gun training sessions these days??? I often wonder why SOooooo many people at gunstores are pushing the lights on firearms, be it a rifle or pistol. In the service, (early 60's) we were told NEVER light up a cigarette at night on the battlefield as YOU can be shot DEAD by a good enemy rifleman.

Now some 50 years later, all the jumping for joy over this or that newest craze in flashlights to mount to pistols or rifles......People are just plan stupid about such things. Now if I have to use a flashlight, I am going to be holding that light arms length away from my body, NOT in front of me or holding my lighted pistol or shotgun with a light on the end of the blessed barrel in front of me.

It seems as though we have all this "BS" going down today, with these Black Assualt Rifles and it has carried over to the pistol folks. The more gagets you put on your rifle, the COOLER it LOOKS.....Ya Baby!~~Now the so called CRIMSON TRACE SIGHTS!!! A damn good way to get one's self KILLED DEADER THAN A DOOR NAIL!!! :eek:

Now lets wake up people shall we and forget about more bells & whistles on your handguns and rifles for crying out loud.:rolleyes: :( :(

[Bushman]

Interesting take on that Hi Ball. I took my 1911 Para with the night sights out of the drawer just last night and even after what has got to be near 20 years, they are still really visible in a dark room.

[Bwana416]

About 1968 I was reading Popular Science (yeah I'm a geek too) and they were praising the hell out of the new "Starlight" systems. The writer went on to add that unlike infra-red systems they only GATHER and amplify light. The bug with infra-red (which I hear dates back to WW2) is that all an enemy sniper has to do is switch OFF his I-R light and watch for the OTHER GUY'S "invisible" light and track it back. Didn't Carlos Hathcock take out a sniper that way?:confused:

-Ray

[Hi Ball]

Bushman that is exactly the point I stress! You end up spending to much time trying to find that RED DOT and that is when the enemy can take you out as he know exactly where you are at in a room or outside etc.

Now with a good set of "night sights" and LED flashlight, you are far better off in the long run. Also the Lazer Sights are something that can and will go out on you.........there is such a thing as to many bells & whistles on a defense gun. I want things quick, easy and simple, less to break down at time of need.:rolleyes::)

[Hi Ball]

Bwana416......Sgt. Hathcock has done several amazing things with his rifle during time of combat. ;) :)

[Bushman]

I've got the "Ultimate Sniper" video from Paladin Press about Carlos Hathcock, but I don't recall it saying anything about shooting at night. From what I remember, Sgt. Hathcock used a Pre-64 M70 .30-06 most of the time, but his longest shot was with a .50 caliber that he had mounted a target scope on.

I did have a laser sight on my .380 ACP Colt for a time and it was a dismal failure in bright light. First off it was not rail mounted, only clamped on the forward part of the trigger guard. No matter how hard I screwed it down, the recoil walked it around to the lower side of the trigger guard so that the shots went progressively higher. I could see it in the shade, but forget it in sunlight. The best was shooting it at night in a fog. It sure would have been visible from the down range side too. A buddy bought it and mounted it on top of his scope on his .22 and liked it well enough. I was glad to be rid of it.

On the aluminum framed 1911's, that is what my double stack Para with the night sights is. I'm way more of a rifle then a shotgun and then a pistol shooter. Shooting a pistol just is not near as satisfying to me as actually being able to hit something with a rifle or a shotgun. I like pistols well enough to have more than a few, but they are expensive noise makers and paper punchers for the most part. On the recoil question, I did split the walnut grip on my Para such that I have been much happier with the finger grip wrap around rubber ones. Being a double stack, it is pretty thick in the grip section anyway so I think that they slim down those Para wooden grips because of that. One of the grip screws stripped out too and Para uses a different grip screw thread than the other 1911's.

[Phil T]

Returning to the original question, if I could justify the cost, I'd buy the S&W alloy framed, commander size, 1911. Their alloy is stronger, and the only one I've handled had an excellent trigger.

[Hi Ball]

Bushman, yes Sgt. Hathcock did use a model 70 Winchester in 30-06 as his main squeeze for a rifle. It was his idea and his side kicks to try the 50 cal round etc. All those young snipers in the middle East have Carlos Hathcock to thank. The Commie's put a $30,000 dollar price tag on Sgt. Carlos (Whitefeather) Hathcock during his 2nd tour of Nam.:eek:

I personally thought the Marines did the guy a lousy deal by not carrying him for 55 days, so he could get his full retirement and benefits given him. Those 96 comfirmed kills are kind of hard to come by as it is seldom that there is more than you and your spotter working together in the field. I do remember someone telling me he had over 400 kills total and I would not doubt that one iota. :) :D :D

Alloy is OK for small calibers like the .380-auto and 9mm-Luger but the 45acp and 10mm need all steel frames, if you want them to last for several years down the road.;)