Texas Legalizes Crossbows During Archery Season

[Altjaeger]

I am not posting this to start a debate though I am sure it will. I have not changed my mind since last go around and I am sure lamplighter and others have not either.

That said I read in the August 2009 NRA American Hunter that the legislature has passed the legislation and the Governor signed into law he legislation allowing crossbow hunting during the regular archery season. It will be effectve in time for the fall season. Growing up they were simply illegal. Some 10 or so years ago they were legalized during the general season.

[ncboman]

no dog in the fight.

[LampLighter]

Yeah, the lazy chee-wee eating recliner sitting individuals got there way here, BUT NOT on my NWR :p:p:p:p:p Enough of us real woodsman bowhunters showed up at the meeting to quash that. :p:p:p:p:p I remember I pm'ed you that I lost a deer this Dec. and that I would never make fun of the xbow guys again, but that only applies to them losing deer. I lost my standing for that. However, I can rag them for being lazy, those who are able-bodied not handicapped, who could go to an archery shop, get fitted for a regular bow, and put in the hard work over the summer like us but who choose not to but sit there in that recliner drinking beer in the a/c, eating chee-wees. Those individuals should not be in our October woods.

Somebody who busted as$ at work and injured a shoulder, or who reached age 60, that is different. He/she may come into our quiet undisturbed October woods with the xbow. He/she we know would be using a regular bow if he/she could.

Really, serious. When-ever I encounter an able-bodied person talking about an xbow, and I see quite a few in Academy Sports, I think not too highly of them. I look them over to see if my hypothesis is correct, and yes they usually are overweight, puffy face like Elvis in later years, usually wearing shorts and sandels, . That puffy face is a sympton of high blood pressure and/or diabetes. You can hear their conversation. Go on the next isle and act like you are reading the back of a particular merchandise and listen to them. " I need a short one so it don't hit the walls of the box stand" I heard that one twice. I rag the archery shop too.

[LampLighter]

Here is a quote from GF:


Quote:
But sugar? Beef?

Do you realize how much too much of that stuff we eat already? We spend less, as a percentage of our total income, on food than any people in the world, and we average over a half a pound of meat a day. And the benefit of all this good, cheap, high-quality food? We've got the fattest population in the world.

And the result, of course, is that Americans tend to die from relatively preventable stuff like obesity, diabetes, heart disease and certain cancers, all of which are related to being too fat and eating too much meat....


Precisely my point in crossbow arguments, and in many debates. I have said that time after time. I am going to know how to find this one in the archives .

http://www.huntamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=584&highlight=diabetes&page=4

[Renegade]

Yeah we've been having the same issue here in Pa. Crossbows have always been legal for handicapped or injured folks, but one commissioner recently (Jan.) opened this can of worms and alot of hunters are up in arms about it. They even made scopes legal in archery season now! So now some other commissioners (with their head on straight) are trying to back track and slow it down to be able to track it's effects on the harvest. Right now they didn't even create a separate stamp so there's no way to track their use. And some politicians got involved and there's legislation pending that would make the definition of both a vertical bow and a cross gun the same. It's currently a big mess.:(

[Twanger]

I believe there are more important things to be worried about.
Hunters rights
Access to huntable land
Educating the public, and in particular children CORRECTLY about hunting

I could probably write down 20 things, maybe 100, before I got to crossbows.

[Altjaeger]

Back when I bow hunted men were men, boys were boys and the women all purdy. Men drank whiskey, horses drank beer, women had tea and kids clamored for sasporila. Bowhunting during designated season was only about a decade old most places thanks to the gun hunters generosity in making room for us as newcomers. We used real bows.

Then along came this groups of sillified, goofified. lazified, wimpified sissettes who could not pull and hold a real bow or aim well enough to hit the barn from inside. They had these Orwellian contraptions with wheels and cables that you could jerk back and then hold with not much more than baby's breath. Worse they had sights that let you shoot playing cards though sidewise at 150 yards.

Oh a few guys bitched but most of us quietly slid over and made room. We had worked hard to gain our skills and here came a bunch of lazy jazonkeys using a tool tha allowed them to gain skills in a few days that took us months to develop. But that was OK. People were a bit more forgiving and tolerant of others in those days of yore.

Now I have gone many rounds of this in the last 10 years and tired of it so this will be my only post in this thread about the subject. Archers and traditional black powder hunters make room for the crossbows and inlines. They fit as well into your seasons as any. If you can't you will find me and possibly many others tired of this squabbling and ready to tell governors, legislators and game commisions that enough is enough. Scrap ALL special weapons seasons and let everyone compete with the arm of their choice in one big general season.:eek:

[dave-t.]

I'm 5'9", 165lbs, 33 yr former college football/track athlete, and I'd use a crossbow if it was legal in the gen archery season. I'm not an archer, I'm a hunter, and if it were a 4 month pistol season, or muzzleloader, or atlatl season, instead of the archery season, I'd be hunting it with the legal weapon.

I own a bow because of the deer season, not because I give a flip about bows.

Same thing for fishing. When I use a fly rod, it's because it's the best tool for the job, same when I use a trotline. I'd make a horrible purist because I don't have loyalty to the tool, but I do have a strong dedication to the game I'm after.

I'm a 20-25yd and under hunter with a bow, and I don't see how the crossbow would make me any more or less effective, except that practice and form are less demanding with the crossbow, which I would like since I always have activities and chores on the to-do list.

[ncboman]

Scrap ALL special weapons seasons and let everyone compete with the arm of their choice in one big general season.


compete?

Since you don't partake in any of the special seasons, I'm not surprised you would take this stand. Most/many gun hunters want in on the special seasons but don't want to restrict themselves with the special season weapons. :rolleyes:

[Chuck S]

Hooray for Texas! :) In case you haven't noticed there is an epidemic going on and the epidemic is the loss of new hunters/hunters each year. We are not beginning to keep up with population growth and in many cases losing numbers despite population growth. Deer, Elk and other big game grow at a rate determined by managers and in most cases are at an all time high or near high, post 1800. Sure seems as if any well educated hunter hunter, would welcome most any new endeavor/season/weapon, etc to draw more folks into hunting. :confused: One thing I've noticed over the past half century or more is that when folks start playing around with a new weapon, say a Compound Bow or Black Powder, it's usually predictable that they'll soon up their shooting and hunting time. In many cases it's no time at all till they migrate to other weapons, even the commonplace rifle!:eek: Sure seems like a great thing to me. Hunters win, retailers really win, (the economy) and in the end conservation scores a huge win.

As for the tirade on overweight folks:o here's something for you to chew on for starters: http://www.bigfatfacts.com/

Bias, bigotry and worse are often the fare for those who've never or not yet experienced the cruel machinations of genetics, and more. Funny thing but it's usually the person who hasn't had diet problems, and they are far and few between, that cast aspersions toward those of us who are carrying extra pounds.

Crossbows are self limiting in many if not most cases being relegated, because of their weight and clumsiness, to blinds or stands and therefore are seldom found on still hunts, stalks, horseback hunts or most of the other ways folks do hunt.

In the end and again, Hooray for Texas!:D

Good Hunting,
Chuck S:cool:

[Altjaeger]

compete?

Since you don't partake in any of the special seasons, I'm not surprised you would take this stand. Most/many gun hunters want in on the special seasons but don't want to restrict themselves with the special season weapons. :rolleyes:

You missed the point NC. I want no special season and begrudge none theirs. I do tire of hearing the whining (need cheese?), bickering and selfishness that is ongoing.

Kinda like telling a kid, "you want something to cry about?" I'm ready for "I will give you something to whine about" with nothing left to be selfish with.

Archer's here have all October and for all I care they can add September. Then again maybe give Xbows September with THE OTHER archers keeping October. If TPWD thinks that will be to many harvested then MAYBE 1-15 October X Bows and 16-30 October for long/recurves/wheel and cable. But then maybe wheel and cable is too advanced and belongs with Xbows. Lots of ways to be screwed versus simply sharing.

In other words let them keep the season and share it, or split it, or remove it. I am perfectly willing for them to continue and wish the best. With a 2 month general season I don't have time for more.

What I do want is an end to the chest beatin, "I am special, more of a man, plus by the way I have rubber balls hanging of the back of my pickem up truck" crap.

And that has been my consistent stand for 10 years.

[LampLighter]

It always boils down to the same question. If one could just answer it reasonably. The question is :


Why before, when able-bodied, could have went down to the local archery shop, got fitted for a vertical bow, bought some arrows, practiced during the summer and finally join in on our quiet unspooked October woods. It was there for the taking. BUT, the individual made a choice. He/she chose NOT to do all of that work, but NOW wants to join in when the possibility of avoiding all that and just cocking a device and shouldering it just like a rifle becomes dangling in front of that individual in the form of proposed legislation. WHY before, could have but chose not to, BUT NOW wants to come in our quiet October woods ? Why chose not to before , but wants to now ? WHY is the question.

I think it is pretty obvious. There can only be one answer. Logically. They didn't want to do all that work, and have to hold that bow back. It is the same old story. People today are lazy- period. They want shortcuts in life. Hell, the kids come to expect it !!! They think it is entitled. Fast food drive-ups, drive up banking, hell we can't even get out the auto any more.

There are NO shortcuts. WORK !! sweat.. Earn life. That is the point. It is time for this freddy the freeloader times to end. Go to work. I say NO to xbows, except injury verified by doctor and age 60 + .

[Altjaeger]

That is what you WISH was the question, not the question.

"These young recruits today are just sissy mommas boys. They would never make it in the Army as it was we we came in. The Army is going to pot!!".

One Centurian NCO to another Centurian NCO approximately 2, A.D.

[ncboman]

You missed the point NC. I want no special season and begrudge none theirs.


Scrap ALL special weapons seasons and let everyone compete with the arm of their choice in one big general season.

:confused:

[GF.]

I come at this from my own perspective, having campaigned long and hard on the trad ticket over these many years. But when reality sets in, different states have different management requirements - whether they be managing animal populations, hunting pressure, or a combination of the two.

If a state is using a lottery system or equipment restrictions to hold down the harvest total within a given season, then by all means yes, keep the regs as tight as possible--loosening regs to allow scopes & sabots has absolutely gutted the ML season in several states already, and it would be a horror show to let the same damnable fate befall bowhunting. But where the herds are over target and anybody who is interested can hunt bow and CF and ML seasons at will, then the bowhunting opportunity is not likely to be harmed by permitting crossbows to be out there alongside the wheelbows and the tradbows.

In CT, the way that it's likely to play out is that crossbows will get the OK for private lands where hunter density is low and deer densities are too damn high, but they won't get a pass on the public lands that are already getting a terrific pounding.

One Big Season (OBS - or should I say "Oh, BS!" ?) is the worst possible outcome for everybody but the gun-only bunch. OBS proponents like to say that they'd be making things 'equal for everybody', but of course that's crap. They'd get more time and more tags on their own terms while everybody else gets shorted, no matter what their motivation for being out there. Not only the 'purists', but also the guys like Dave would lose, because the higher harvest/hunter day of effort would mean fewer days afield every year--and if you're only bowhunting because that's the only kind of hunting you're allowed to do XX days per year, then I don't see where fewer days afield with a more efficient weapon is the desired outcome--unless all you care about is seeing the bodies flop. And in that case, the sport is better off without you.

If anybody who wants to hunt as many days or the same calendar dates as a three-season hunter can just buy the proper tags and go, then everything is already as 'equal for everybody' as it can get. If the only thing stopping somebody is himself, then basically, the OBS camp is saying that the gubmint should change the laws to make it easier for him to do what others are already doing through the same honest effort that the OBSer is unwilling to put out????:eek:

'OBS' indeed!

[Chuck S]

To me hunting has always been much, much more than just shooting. The way that many of you are talking, the shooting means everything. A crossbow is like a shotgun/slug, Black Powder, and Pistol, when it comes to a modern high power rifle. It's range limited in fact the range is about like that of most bows in that it peaks out quickly. It's clumsy, but some folks just love them to the extent that not even a rifle interests them. So from that standpoint, a crossbow is just another hunting weapon. More difficult to use than some and less difficult than others.

From a season standpoint, whether the crossbow hunters get a brand new season or it's just added in with existing seasons, it all adds up to more hunters and more hunting opportunity in most cases, and that's great! I'll bet for those of us old enough, if our memories were intact, we might even remember the arguments in some circles over allowing recurves. After all they could be made shorter, etc etc and give an unfair advantage over the cumbersome longbow. :rolleyes:

For those of you still trying to get a regulation structure that makes you choose one weapon over another, thankfully that's gone by the wayside in most areas, even in states that started out that way. As I said above the driving force of dwindling numbers outweigh most other reasons.

[Hink]

There seems to be some worry about the riff raff the legalization of xbows might bring in.

Well, I see less and less people out, hear less and less rifle shots on opening day and I don't think its my hearing.

There is a set of folks that were once among us as we were embarking upon this art we all think so highly of or that allows us to think so highly of ourselves. These folks had a misadventure at some point during their career in the sport and there is no need to go into the things that would cause someone to hang it up but suffice it to say that some of these guys had things happen and they gave it up. We always live with our mistakes as hunters and for some the best way they figured they could avoid it was to stick to the rifle.

I'd not only consider this group an ethical one but folks I wouldn't mind hunting/sharing with.

This new season might get these guys back or some of them. I don't mind sharing my woods with xbow users. My dad has one and I can shoot bulleye for bullseye with him and I don't think he has any advantage. In fact if we are attacked while out I can get off every arrow in my quiver before he's fired twice.

[LampLighter]

To me hunting has always been much, much more than just shooting. The way that many of you are talking, the shooting means everything. A crossbow is like a shotgun/slug, Black Powder, and Pistol, when it comes to a modern high power rifle. It's range limited in fact the range is about like that of most bows in that it peaks out quickly. It's clumsy, but some folks just love them to the extent that not even a rifle interests them. So from that standpoint, a crossbow is just another hunting weapon. More difficult to use than some and less difficult than others.

From a season standpoint, whether the crossbow hunters get a brand new season or it's just added in with existing seasons, it all adds up to more hunters and more hunting opportunity in most cases, and that's great! I'll bet for those of us old enough, if our memories were intact, we might even remember the arguments in some circles over allowing recurves. After all they could be made shorter, etc etc and give an unfair advantage over the cumbersome longbow. :rolleyes:


Again, the effectiveness or lack thereof of the crossbow is totally not relavant to the point I make. My point emphasizes that the able-bodied individual had a free choice before to take up regular bowhunting, but chose not to, and now wants to take the shortcut and join the hard working, practicing bowhunters in the quiet October woods. THAT is what we say NO to. The shortcut. The INTENT, the Mens Rea. Too often in today's society people seek the shortcut in life, the easy way out . Lets say you are in line for something. Been in line for 48 minutes. When you are close to being next, the person in front of you is approached by a friend. They engage in the " hey long time no see" handshake, and began talking. Watch him! :mad: Before you know it, he has slyly slipped in line. THAT!!! my friend, is the able-bodied xbow seeker. THAT is what we disapprove of.



In our computer-powered, fast food, supersized world, people in general, including many hunters, seem to have become lazy.

Eberhart, John Bowhunting pressured whitetails 1st ed. Stackpole 2003 .

[LampLighter]

There seems to be some worry about the riff raff the legalization of xbows might bring in.




;);););););)

[Altjaeger]

My point emphasizes that the able-bodied individual had a free choice before to take up regular bowhunting, but chose not to, and now wants to take the shortcut and join the hard working, practicing bowhunters in the quiet October woods. THAT is what we say NO to. The shortcut. The INTENT, the Mens Rea. Too often in today's society people seek the shortcut in life, the easy way out .
Eberhart, John Bowhunting pressured whitetails 1st ed. Stackpole 2003 .

Oh you mean like the riff raff that slipped in with wheels and cable offering a far greater advantage over the long bow and recurve than any that the X bow does?

You know the things like holding a draw at 1/2 draw weight, a sighting system that removes instinctual shooting developed by months of practice, really short bows, etc?

Yup the generosity shown to that group of rag bags almost ruined the sport. Look how badly it has sunk. Fred Bear, Pope and Young must all be spinning in their graves!!!

Nope screw the Golden Rule and reciprocating in kind for the next group. Don't want anymore trash like that bunch in our sport! :D

[Altjaeger]

:confused:

With selective editing like that you may have a future in politics!!! :D

[ncboman]

both statements were made by you in this thread.

I suspect if you were an avid bowhunter, you might have other views. :)

[LampLighter]

Altjaeger has put the whammy on me. Just 15 minutes ago, I finally got the NWR pdf file downloaded. Here is what I saw :


2009-2010 Hunting Regulations

International Bowhunter Education Certif. no longer required, but recommended

Compound bow, long bow, and crossbow shall be legal means of take during the archery season.

Legal Firearms for primitive weapon season shall include breech-loading 1900 replica rifles 44 cal or larger.

and they moved the primitive weapon season BEFORE the 2nd lottery hunt :eek:


Hunting is pretty much over for me. If I have a bad experience this season because of the above, the camp WILL be up for sale.

Just the relaxing of the bowhunter certif. alone is disasterous. What the fu%# is on the Feds' minds ?

[Altjaeger]

both statements were made by you in this thread.

I suspect if you were an avid bowhunter, you might have other views. :)

I don't deny making either statement though they came from two different posts. I only commented on the editing chosen without context.:)

If I were an avid Archery hunter I might, but then I might not as many seem unconcerned about crossbows. Some like Twanger began on an Xbow then switched over. I remember you making the statement that if someone wished to tote a heavy and cumbersome X bow you had no problem. My experience was with a Ben Pearson recurve back in the 1960s when men were men, women were all purdy and horses drank beer.:)

But then I am but a simple hunter.:)

[Sabre]

Well, I've already taken deer with rifle, shotgun, handgun, muzzleloader and bow. I'd like to take one with a crossbow someday just for something different but so far the whine ass, cry baby bowhunters in NY have successfully kept me from being able to do it. Their days of being successful at keeping crossbows out of the woods are numbered.

[DaveHawk]

Lamp But I like eating chee-wees.

So take your vertical bow with all its attachments and go hunt wack off in your stand; or is there a Crossbow hunter near by you :D

[dave-t.]

It makes me wonder how hard core Lamplighter is at home.

Lighting a wood fire to cook with instead of taking the sissy way and using a microwave.

Getting up to turn the TV channel, since new age remote controls are for sissies.

Canning, preserving and producing all the food for the year at your home instead of buying any at the store like a common wussy would.

The out house in January must really put hair on your...uh...chest. Only pansies needs indoor plumbing!

Think of loading and unloading tools on that horse and buggy every day, just so nobody can call him a lazy s.o.b. for taking the easy way and driving a truck.

MODERN SISSIES I tell ya!

Lamp, if you don't live like the Amish, you are also taking the easy way, every day of your life, and someone out there is working harder for less, and ending up tougher than you.






Or you could live and let live, and just not worry about it.:cool:

[ncboman]

hidden deep inside his hunting stuff is a battery powered tv and a bag of cheetos. :D

[DaveHawk]

Man I got to get me a small TV , I have the mount to attach it to the tree. It will beat watching someones big screen through a window while hunting. :rolleyes:

[LampLighter]

It is evident when my point hits home. The responses are my check and balance points to furthur my hypothesis. From the response elicited by the above respondent, one can conclude that he is an able-bodied individual whom took a shortcut and bypassed the hard work of real bowhunting. These individual by statistics tend to be out of height/weight proportion, according to Cooper's Standards for arobics research. They likely watch football and do have a recliner , and likely take naps alot. The faces tend to be puffy, much like Elvis in his latter years, and they tend to sweat alot.

No not me. I am always on the go. I sleep at night and work during the day. I take pride in hard work and earn my way around. And no chee-wees.

[DaveHawk]

lAMP YOUR 1ST MAJOR MISTAKE IS RELINING ON STATISTICS, get for head out of your back side and get to know bow hunters of all walks of life. I can see you have not gained much respect from well seasoned hunters.

[Chuck S]

What do you consider the hard work of bow hunting LL? I ask since my grandson does quite well bare bow and has since the day he first picked it up. He has to work to use sights or his compound and the crossbow is out of the question as it's "too heavy," his words. I suppose that there are some who really have to work at getting and maintaining proficiency with the recurves and long bows but again there are others who do not.

By the way, I've known dozens of folks who you would likely categorize as not being able bodied but who would and likely do work as hard or harder than you. Most folks have a wide range of ideas as to what is able bodied and some like you always seem to include just those who bear some resemblence of body type or in other words, "look" like you in that category.

For starters chew on this: Most of the folks carrying around 50 or 100 extra lbs are likely stronger than those who do not. If you doubt me strap a fifty lb pack to your back and try living with it. All those men on the Strongmen contests are overweight by most tables----:eek:so much for tables and able bodies???? Think you could go a round, or just three minutes with Butter Bean??? I've got some serious money that says you can't.:cool:

Now, other than making that actual shot, what entails all the hard work:confused:????

Chuck S
:cool:

[Hink]

At this stage in my hunting if I considered any of it hard work I wouldn't do it.

I enjoy the vacation or days off from work to gather with close friends and family and bow hunt. I have several different places that I go and they run the scope from trophy hunting to very high deer density. When the guys want to hunt one farm we go and hunt another we go there. Any of the places require me to carry in a treestand and set up. All involve climbing a hill or mountain. Some even require a boat ride. None of it is work.

If you consider an hour or so each evening as it cools down with your dad or stepson out in the back yard shooting a bow to be work, well you are missing the point. Shooting a bow is a very entertaining activity. Its also one the whole family can participate in.

Now I'm not sure about my musky fishing in the summer. Last saturday after 5 hours my forearms were starting to bark and my hands were cramping up. I did raise three and get a pretty nice one to hit at the boat on the figure 8. It was a satisfying day driving home but I wouldn't consider it to have been work. I sure slept good that night.

[My buddy]

Hunting is pretty much over for me. If I have a bad experience this season because of the above, the camp WILL be up for sale.



The truth comes out. It is all about you.

Real hardcore bowhunter....when it gets tough.....give up....

Now who is lazy?

[My buddy]

By the way Lamplighter, I hunt with a crossbow.

Did I go to a pro shop and get fitted for a bow, have a pro shop select and tune my equipment and then spend a whole summer learning to use it?

HELL NO. I learned archery by trial and error by shooting bows. I pick and size my own equipment, I understand how my bows work and dont rely on a proshop for anything......that would be lazy.

And did I shoot for a whole summer to get ready? HELL NO. I started when I was 10 and shot for years. And continue to do so.

And now some lazy punk like you; that needs someone to select and setup a bow and then considers a few months of practice adequate; has the nerve to denounce my weapon choice?

What gives you the right?

[DaveHawk]

1st I have to welcome MY BUDDY !

Good speech !

I've had to use a crossbow for 27 years since I pulled the cartridge off my shoulder. Killed A LOT of deer in 27 years But I started hunting when I was 9.

[GF.]

Boy, oh boy.... Old LL sure as hell has a burr way on up his butt here, and he appears to be trying to extract it with his teeth.:eek: :D

JMO - The 2 hardest things about bowhunting are 1) getting in range and 2) getting to full draw without getting busted... And it's no lie--or even a token exaggeration--to say that crossbows and compounds make both a lot easier.

Not that that necessarily means that there's no room for them in an archery season.


Having shot recurves exclusively for the past 20 years (up 'til this spring :D ), I can say as a matter of fact that a fast-but-forgiving compound has me shooting groups that are half the size at twice the distance... but only when I'm shooting the recurve well and the compound poorly... :rolleyes:

But compared to a scoped slug rifle, even a 300+ fps crossbow (with a scope!) is a relatively feeble weapon which allows for way too much hang-time on the projectile once you get past about 40 yards, which is certainly reason enough (IMO) to absolutely require a bowhunter ed cert for anybody who wants to hunt with a blade and a string. So while I'd say that anything with wheels or a trigger is in a whole different world from a tradbow, a crossbow is not really much different (IMO) than a compound.

No matter how much the idea rankles, the fact is that a guy who takes up bow season only now that he can use a stock and a scope is not harming in any way the guy who has been a die-hard stickenstringer for the past 40 years unless he (and a whole bunch of others just like him) manages to kill so many more deer (or whatever species) within the current season structure that the structure has to change in order to accomodate the impact.

If the season gets shortened, then the tradshooter has an entirely legitimate beef.
If the bag limit gets lowered, the trad has a beef.
If the tags go from over-the-counter to by-lottery-only, the trad has a beef.
Or if the season gets moved to a different time of year entirely (as has happened with several states' ML seasons) and the success rate drops as a result, then yes, again, the tradshooter has a beef because the introduction of the high-tech implements has taken something entirely tangible away from what the 'special season' hunting opportunity used to offer.

Unfortunately for those of us who took up 'primitive' weapons to get away from the crowds, solitude is an intangible. And you can't ask the state to put a lot of weight on intangibles when they're working out the regs and trying to hit a harvest target number. The good news is that solitude can still be found-- it's just about a half a mile farther back in than it used to be.

So (mostly 'cuz I'm one of 'em :D) I'm still totally sympathetic to those who feel like the compounders, crossbow shooters and in-liners are crashing the party, scarfing up the best parts of the buffet and running off with all the best-lookin' wimmin.... But in order to affect the regs, we have to come up with something a little more concrete than 'I don't like it'.

And in a state where they're doing everyting they can to up the harvest in the bow-only areas (which is most states these days, or so it seems).... Well, if the current population of hunters isn't gettin' it done, then what's the alternative? That might mean that crossbows don't get a pass statewide, but in Texas, I'd bet that they're doing this because so much of the land is locked up under lease agreements that it's about all they can come up with.

As in so many places, if the main obstacle to meeting the harvest target is getting enough hunters access to the land in the first place, then it doesn't matter in the least what those few hunters might happen to use once they get there--not so long as they shoot straight and shoot often.

[DaveHawk]

GF you will not have to worry about me in MD, with 250-300 deer PSM I only list as the top crossbow shooter for doe's. 16-25 a year I'm not hurtuing the population to bad.

COme on down and help out.

[LampLighter]

My Buddy

When you are a freshman here on H.A. you say yes SIR and no Sir when speaking to a forum veteran. 2 posts you have Zero senority. You are lazy . The mere act of you responding is indicitave that I struck home.


if he comes back, I am going to lay the Sigmund Freud on him. Yall gonna feel de ja vu.

[LampLighter]

Having shot recurves exclusively for the past 20 years (up 'til this spring ), I can say as a matter of fact that a fast-but-forgiving compound has me shooting groups that are half the size at twice the distance... but only when I'm shooting the recurve well and the compound poorly...


Now GF, I keep a notebook here by the table. I have a page & 1/2 just of your stuff. I can dig out from the archives a sentence that will make you look , well, bad regarding the above.

You are not an accomplished recurve hunter. You own a recurve, shoot it in the yard, and do take it out in the hunting woods in pursuit of deer, but you are not an accomplished traditional hunter. That I know. So give up that portrayal while you're ahead. A civilian does not wear Sember Fi unless he was indeed an accomplished Marine.

[LampLighter]

What gives you the right?


For Starters, the upper right and left corners. :cool:



and watch how good I am. by tomorrow, the fellow who started this post will be here advising that posts & threads cannot be owned. Watch. I am good.

[LampLighter]

and get to know bow hunters of all walks of life.


able-bodied persons who have never bowhunted with a vertical bow, but did obtain a crossbow and enter the archery woods ARE NOT bowhunters. You must earn the bowhunter recognition. Cutting in the ice cream line doesn't fly here.

[My buddy]

My Buddy

When you are a freshman here on H.A. you say yes SIR and no Sir when speaking to a forum veteran. 2 posts you have Zero senority. You are lazy . The mere act of you responding is indicitave that I struck home.


if he comes back, I am going to lay the Sigmund Freud on him. Yall gonna feel de ja vu.

First off it's Junior Member, not freshman.

Sorry I don't spend all my time on the computer running up my post count so I can gain some internet seniority. Which in the real world means absolutely nothing. And by the way, less than 300 post is not really what I would consider a veteran.

You know Lamplighter, A man who has been the indisputable favorite of his mother keeps for life the feeling of a conqueror.

Also, just as no one can be forced into belief, so no one can be forced into unbelief.

Maybe spending a little more time shooting your bow and a little less time minding your post total will help you shank less deer this year.

Since we are on the topic of lazy, I think that there is a much greater threat to the hunting community due to laziness than crossbows, its those damn guys that use trail cameras instead of some old fashioned ground pounding, worse yet is people that bait with stuff like Deer Cocaine.....what lazy losers. Nothing like taking the "hunt" out of hunting.

[LampLighter]

Before I spin him with prophecies and sheep, I'll embarras the newcomer with poor reading comprehension. Here goes:



will help you shank less deer this year.


He clearly has been on my "I went shopping" thread. He failed to comprehend what he reads in that I clearly stated that I purposely only take what deer I need to get a sausage supply, then I let many deer walk the remainder of the year.


its those damn guys that use trail cameras instead of some old fashioned ground pounding, worse yet is people that bait with stuff like Deer Cocaine.....what lazy losers

Here, he clearly failed reading comprehension in that I clearly stated that I was getting into trail cameras as a hobby, since, as stated above and on my shopping thread, I let so many deer walk by choice that I decided to take up the camera hobby . If I did coincidently capture a monster on one, I would hunt him, but the object was something to do for fun. It is still up for viewing.

The deer cocaine- well, Davehawk made that mistake too, but at least he did so before I posted that the cocaine was to go on my land, not on the NWR where I hunt. This rookie actually failed to comprehend what I wrote and STILL posted that I use cocaine to hunt. These are bad mistakes even for a rookie.

In conclusion then, let me say to the rookie newcomer. Man, you don't want to butt heads with me. I'll disect every sentence you post and make you look silly. When you come after me, you really need to think. Do some research first and make sure that you are not putting foot before mouth, because I will catch you. You should be aware of Self-Fullfilling Prophecies. Those are where you are so mentally sure that a particular outcome is going to happen from a given event, that in reality, when that outcome fails to occur, your mind makes you see it as having occured indeed.

Witnesses to a crime often hypnotise themselves by selecting what outcome they "think" should have occured, THEN adjusting the witness details to "steer" the story in that direction. I was taught that both in Criminal Justice 411, and again by the FBI in the State academy.

So, you see, whenever you type, I am profiling you and I will catch you when you stump. Think first. Look back and make sure you know what you are talking about. You are new and don't know better, but you'll learn.

[DaveHawk]

LL you sure didn't pay attention in your studies.

You can only wish you had the adventures I have had. One thing you'll never have is the true character of a woodsman or hunter. You back talk in everything, what is the phrase, double minded.

For the most part your elitist attitude is not for this hunting forum.

[dave-t.]

Is keeping track of everyone's details and 'stats' really that important? :confused:

For all you know 'My buddy' is Chuck Adams.


When you keep score, someone is always gonna score higher....unless delusions of grandure skew the results.:(


Feel better Lamp, "The sun will come up, tomorrow..."

[My buddy]

Before I spin him with prophecies and sheep, I'll embarras the newcomer with poor reading comprehension. Here goes:




He clearly has been on my "I went shopping" thread. He failed to comprehend what he reads in that I clearly stated that I purposely only take what deer I need to get a sausage supply, then I let many deer walk the remainder of the year.



Here, he clearly failed reading comprehension in that I clearly stated that I was getting into trail cameras as a hobby, since, as stated above and on my shopping thread, I let so many deer walk by choice that I decided to take up the camera hobby . If I did coincidently capture a monster on one, I would hunt him, but the object was something to do for fun. It is still up for viewing.

The deer cocaine- well, Davehawk made that mistake too, but at least he did so before I posted that the cocaine was to go on my land, not on the NWR where I hunt. This rookie actually failed to comprehend what I wrote and STILL posted that I use cocaine to hunt. These are bad mistakes even for a rookie.

In conclusion then, let me say to the rookie newcomer. Man, you don't want to butt heads with me. I'll disect every sentence you post and make you look silly. When you come after me, you really need to think. Do some research first and make sure that you are not putting foot before mouth, because I will catch you. You should be aware of Self-Fullfilling Prophecies. Those are where you are so mentally sure that a particular outcome is going to happen from a given event, that in reality, when that outcome fails to occur, your mind makes you see it as having occured indeed.

Witnesses to a crime often hypnotise themselves by selecting what outcome they "think" should have occured, THEN adjusting the witness details to "steer" the story in that direction. I was taught that both in Criminal Justice 411, and again by the FBI in the State academy.

So, you see, whenever you type, I am profiling you and I will catch you when you stump. Think first. Look back and make sure you know what you are talking about. You are new and don't know better, but you'll learn.

Oh Boy, I am completely embarrassed. I don't have a reading comprehension problem, it is you that is trying to spin the information you type.

For example, your trail cameras are only for entertainment, but if you get a picture of a MONSTER you will hunt it. What that means is, you are using a trail camera to scout for you. Spin how ever you like but that is lazy.

I have also seen several thread where you speak of bait or attractants. While I am sure you will claim this is just for FUN, I am also sure that you would shoot a deer over one if you had the chance. Spin it how ever you like but that is lazy.

You make claims that myself and others can't comprehend your post, well maybe it is not us, maybe it is you that need to be more clear. However, I have a feeling that it is not us misinterpreting your statements rather you twisting your own words to suit your needs.

I have yet to see a single intelligent argument from you for the exclusion of crossbows, you just claim people are lazy and then make some comments about eating habits and how they watch their TV. You would think someone "trained" by the FBI, would be able to come up with a good intelligible argument to keep crossbows out, yet you fail miserably.

Your claim is Lazy, but even without knowing you I can guarantee I have spent more time shooting bow than you ever have. I also am sure that I could out shoot you with any type of bow, compound, traditional or crossbow.

So just because you set up your trail cameras to see what deer you have coming in to your bait, you think that using a compound bow (that maybe takes a week to become efficient to hunt with at bowhunting ranges) is challenging.

I choose the crossbow for several reasons and being unable to use other types of bows is not one of them. In fact, throughout the season, compound, traditional and crossbow will accompany me into the woods.

So have fun dissecting my handful of post.

Unfortunately, you have already made your first mistake, thinking I'm the rookie. I've been crushing fools like you, in forums like this, before you even knew there was an internet.

Bring on the HEADBUTT.

[Altjaeger]

and watch how good I am. by tomorrow, the fellow who started this post will be here advising that posts & threads cannot be owned. Watch. I am good.

I would hate to disappoint you old buddy, old pal!
:D

But to keep it short seniority among posters is like virtue among whores. Guess that says where you rank yourself.:)

[LampLighter]

You make claims that myself and others can't comprehend your post, well maybe it is not us, maybe it is you that need to be more clear. However, I have a feeling that it is not


Here he is trying to turn singular into plural. Misery loves company. That is the sheeple effect. Feels comfort in numbers and is attempting to join the herd . Man this guy is the easist yet.


So just because you set up your trail cameras to see what deer you have coming in to your bait

Here he has chosen to assume that my camera and my cocaine go together. There's that prophecy I told yall about. He choses the desired outcome, then adjusts the details to steer the assumption toward the desired end.


I have also seen several thread where you speak of bait or attractants. While I am sure you will claim this is just for FUN, I am also sure that you would shoot a deer over one if you had the chance. Spin it how ever you like but that is lazy.


Here is another prophecy where he chooses a desired outcome, and assumes the circumstances lead to that desired outcome.

The rookie has 4 posts, and thinks he knows me. He is likely a white male juvenile, or in his early 20's.

Shall I continue ?

I told yall. This rookie is too easy. He has got to get better than that. It's not even fun it's so easy to hang him.

-------------------------------------
When I Speak, E.F. Hutton Listens

[Altjaeger]

Now GF, I keep a notebook here by the table. I have a page & 1/2 just of your stuff. I can dig out from the archives a sentence that will make you look , well, bad regarding the above.

You are not an accomplished recurve hunter. You own a recurve, shoot it in the yard, and do take it out in the hunting woods in pursuit of deer, but you are not an accomplished traditional hunter. That I know. So give up that portrayal while you're ahead. A civilian does not wear Sember Fi unless he was indeed an accomplished Marine.

Two questions?

One is how can you dig up archives that no on else including Swamp can access?

Are you so sick that you keep a notebook on members posts?:D

[Altjaeger]

Here he is trying to turn singular into plural. Misery loves company. That is the sheeple effect. Feels comfort in numbers and is attempting to join the herd . Man this guy is the easist yet.



Here he has chosen to assume that my camera and my cocaine go together. There's that prophecy I told yall about. He choses the desired outcome, then adjusts the details to steer the assumption toward the desired end.



Here is another prophecy where he chooses a desired outcome, and assumes the circumstances lead to that desired outcome.

The rookie has 4 posts, and thinks he knows me. He is likely a white male juvenile, or in his early 20's.

Shall I continue ?

-------------------------------------
When I Speak, E.F. Hutton Listens


Continue if you want, but I am afraid you are already a bust as a standup comic.
:)

[Altjaeger]

For Starters, the upper right and left corners. :cool:



and watch how good I am. by tomorrow, the fellow who started this post will be here advising that posts & threads cannot be owned. Watch. I am good.

No prophecy there. You have fallen back on that lame cover and been called on it so many times it would be insane not to expect the same outcome.

I and many others could have predicted you would be among the first to jump on the announcement a give us your "lazy" speech. You've gone through Seniority and now gone into sheeple. Most likely Maslow and leadership with follow shortly. No prophecy, its just not our first rodeo. :D

[My buddy]

Lamplighter,

So, was it "sheeple effect" or was it a response to your inclusion of another forum member in your response to me?

Please note your post #44 were you include another forum member. My response was not to include others but to respond to a statement of yours that included others.

Bottom line is that you choose to persecute people for using crossbows, but, you give no substantial argument for them not to be used. In fact it seems like your claims that people are just lazy is nothing more than a prophecy where you choose the desired outcome and assume the circumstances that lead to a desired outcome.

Lets see, nearly 300 post, most of which are filled with blather and gibberish. You are likely approaching 50 and anti social. You likely can't conform to the norm and live away from the masses. You are most likely unliked by normal people and have difficulty fitting into the workplace, which has led to you starting your own barely surviving business. As your lack of work leaves you plenty of time, you spend your time on internet websites trying to make people think you are important, but, in reality all it does is makes more people dislike you and think you are strange.

Also, chances are you never get laid and can't remember what the touch of a women feels like.

Shall I continue?

[ncboman]

Oh Boy, I am completely embarrassed. I don't have a reading comprehension problem, it is you that is trying to spin the information you type.

For example, your trail cameras are only for entertainment, but if you get a picture of a MONSTER you will hunt it. What that means is, you are using a trail camera to scout for you. Spin how ever you like but that is lazy.

I have also seen several thread where you speak of bait or attractants. While I am sure you will claim this is just for FUN, I am also sure that you would shoot a deer over one if you had the chance. Spin it how ever you like but that is lazy.

You make claims that myself and others can't comprehend your post, well maybe it is not us, maybe it is you that need to be more clear. However, I have a feeling that it is not us misinterpreting your statements rather you twisting your own words to suit your needs.

I have yet to see a single intelligent argument from you for the exclusion of crossbows, you just claim people are lazy and then make some comments about eating habits and how they watch their TV. You would think someone "trained" by the FBI, would be able to come up with a good intelligible argument to keep crossbows out, yet you fail miserably.

Your claim is Lazy, but even without knowing you I can guarantee I have spent more time shooting bow than you ever have. I also am sure that I could out shoot you with any type of bow, compound, traditional or crossbow.

So just because you set up your trail cameras to see what deer you have coming in to your bait, you think that using a compound bow (that maybe takes a week to become efficient to hunt with at bowhunting ranges) is challenging.

I choose the crossbow for several reasons and being unable to use other types of bows is not one of them. In fact, throughout the season, compound, traditional and crossbow will accompany me into the woods.

So have fun dissecting my handful of post.

Unfortunately, you have already made your first mistake, thinking I'm the rookie. I've been crushing fools like you, in forums like this, before you even knew there was an internet.

Bring on the HEADBUTT.

:)

My buddy, welcome to Hunt America.

Pretty good post for a 'freshman'. :D

[Sidekick]

My buddy I'm buyin' you a beer!

[ncboman]

The rookie has 4 posts, and thinks he knows me. He is likely a white male juvenile, or in his early 20's.

Shall I continue ?


I think he's in his mid/late 50's and fairly familiar with your neck of the woods. :cool:

[LampLighter]

own barely surviving business. As your lack of work leaves you plenty of time

You have me confused with that uneducated roofer on this forum. I am soaring in business and have a waiting list.



Bottom line is that you choose to persecute people for using crossbows
No, I point out the able-bodied lazy trend in society today, and others feel guilty because they realize that they fit that description, which is what I suspect about you. It's your own fault. No one made yall eat those chee wees.


and watch how good I am. by tomorrow, the fellow who started this post will be here advising that posts & threads cannot be owned. Watch. I am good.


I win. Once again I am right. The sheep herd is so predictable. Yall are funny. It's been fun, but I have lots of grass to cut so, since I once again prevailed, I am outta here.

[DaveHawk]

How do we know your not the SOB that crashed the system since you can pull up archives. LL

[LampLighter]

:D "

[Altjaeger]

:D "

Lets put whether you are mouth or substance to the test. Pull two posts of mine from August, 2008; 2 of NCs from July, 2007; 2 of Alan McDaniels from January 2009 and see if any two of us recognize one of the post you select as being posted by us. That means we only have to recognize 2 out of the 6 posts.

Go for it big boy. See what you get done say by noon tomorrow? Brownie points and a cewpie doll if your faster.:D

[LampLighter]

OK. I could not find yours, but I did locate one by nc, and actually two of Alan's. If you wish to see the results of my archive search, you must first make a substantial donation to the American Cancer Society. Once you post the thank you letter, I will provide the result.

Now big boy, you have until noon Monday.

[Altjaeger]

OK. I could not find yours, but I did locate one by nc, and actually two of Alan's. If you wish to see the results of my archive search, you must first make a substantial donation to the American Cancer Society. Once you post the thank you letter, I will provide the result.

Now big boy, you have until noon Monday.

Pretty much what I thought. Forget the meds. You enjoy the delusions too much.:D

[LampLighter]

Pretty much what I thought


Well if you knew I could do it, then why did you make me go do all that research ? I missed 30 minutes of cutting grass retrieving that data.

[GF.]

LL, you're a hoot.

If you had the ability to pull up a single one of my (or Alt's or Dave's or Alan's or NC's or Twanger's) 4 or 5 thousand-odd (each) pre-crash HA posts, you'd have it plastered up here for all to see - and you'd get it done so fast you'd wet yourself.

If you want respect, show some.

[LampLighter]

Oh I have it- some of it. And notice that every one of my actions is in reaction to yall. Example is this thread sat idle, and here you come fanning the fire. Now I have to respond. I act in defense. I WILL act in defense every time. It is a pact I made way back. All you have to do is quit antaginizing me. Like Rambo told the small town sheriff in the woods, " Let it go, let it go."

[ncboman]

Rambo? ... never watched it. :D

There was a buck in my yard this morning at dawn. :)

[dave-t.]

I'm not saying I advocate deer cocaine or trail cams, but if you have both out and set, but not together, then...:rolleyes:

1+1=2.

I've honestly never bought or used either of them, but dangit man, if you're spending the time and money, you may as well see the action, whether you hunt over that area/property or not.

[LampLighter]

The cameras were a neat hobby. I have come to grips with the ban, and I am exiced and gearing up. Shooting the bow more. Getting close. I wish I could run the cams, but it's ok either way.

[DaveHawk]

I got the crossbows out , tuning them up , getting the arrows ready. Did some scouting around the Farm in Va yesterday, Jake got out of the van and saw the chickens, we almost had one for lunch, Jack got a mouth full of feathers. Did some fishing and drove home at by 1 AM Can't wait to do it again next weekend.

[Altjaeger]

Oh I have it- some of it. And notice that every one of my actions is in reaction to yall. Example is this thread sat idle, and here you come fanning the fire. Now I have to respond. I act in defense. I WILL act in defense every time. It is a pact I made way back. All you have to do is quit antaginizing me. Like Rambo told the small town sheriff in the woods, " Let it go, let it go."

Always the victim. Always the aggrieved.:)

[LampLighter]

When I speak, E.F. Hutton listens ;)

[ncboman]

When I speak, E.F. Hutton listens ;)

When I fart, my crew laughs. :D

[My buddy]

When I speak, E.F. Hutton listens ;)

most likely the only one who wants to listen to you, considering he is DEAD.

[LampLighter]

So you are old enough to know E.F. Hutton. That's what that was about. An elicit bait. OK. thinking :rolleyes: Usually one mouths off in adulthood when he didn't get enough shiners in high school. A late learner I presume. Interesting hypothesis.

[DaveHawk]

most likely the only one who wants to listen to you, considering he is DEAD.
Reply With Quote

How true/

[LampLighter]

You could at least take some time and think before you post so that you make sense.

[ncboman]

So you are old enough to know E.F. Hutton. That's what that was about. An elicit bait. OK. thinking Usually one mouths off in adulthood when he didn't get enough shiners in high school. A late learner I presume. Interesting hypothesis.

:confused:


You could at least take some time and think before you post so that you make sense.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: