matthews reezen 7.0

[swamp]

Has anyone shot this bow? How does it compare to the closest thing that bow tech has to this model?

http://mathewsinc.com/mathews-bows-11339-44-ViewProduct-1476-324.asp

[Hink]

Looks like bowtech has three 7 inchers on its comparison chart.

I've got this policy about mathews bows and them riding in my FJ. They can ride on hitch haul but they aren't allowed in the vehicle so its not a brand I considered when picking my next bow.

I don't have any facts to base my prejudice but I do have it and its strong so until I feel different they ride outside.

[ncboman]

a friend has shot the reezen and says it is faster but he still prefers his switchback xt.

I could go shoot one almost any day but I doan wanna waste the guy's time as I'm not in the market.

ncboman

[swamp]

given that it is such a fast bow it probably stacks fairly badly... I have the switchback and it draws fairly smoothly.

[ncboman]

:confused:

stacks?

my definition of stacking is what many recurves/longbows do when the ideal draw length is exceeded.

My friend said the reezen wasn't as smooth and I doan think he liked the grip so much, nor the dual cams. He said it pure smoked the arrows though.

I'm certainly no expert but I think dual cams seem like the better design. I've already seen the amount of jerk a singlecam bow puts on nocksets, etc is extreme compared to dualcam bows. Somewhat conjecture on my part though as I shoot a singlecam at present.

ncboman

[swamp]

stacks probably not a good term... but here is what i mean: pulls fairly easy through the cycle and then pulls like an absolute SOB at the end of the draw until you break the cams over.

They use the term valley .... my terminology is obviously lacking here... LOL

I like my switchback single cam... draws smooth with an easy valley...

Apparently bow tech has got the timing issues solved with there dual cams and now they also have a single cam bows.

[ncboman]

Twanger and others are far more knowing on the latest top line bows than I am. Maybe they'll pitch in here.

My go to bow didn't even cost 200bucks. :p

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Ohio%2008/Archery1108140.jpg
broadhead vs fieldpoint I

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v50/ncboman/Ohio%2008/Archery1108141.jpg
broadhead vs fieldpoint II

;)

ncboman

[StringJumper]

I have owned two Mathews and had a lot of small things go wrong...handles falling off, stabilizer insert breaking in half, cam washers flying off. And then Mathews service center would not even send me a 5 cent washer to replace the one that fell off. Said they had to send it to their dealer for them to replace.

I am not saying I will never buy another Mathews but I will give Bowtech a look first. Because of quality and customer service - not performance.

[ncboman]

just talked to my friend again and I was mistaken,

he has a Reezen ordered and didn't care for the Mathews Monster. He has his Switchback sold to help pay for the new Reezen. My above ~ comments should be applied to the Monster.

ncboman

[swamp]

can you tell us what his comments were on the shooting characteristics of the reezen other than he is getting one... apparently he likes it

[ncboman]

Our conversations about the Reezen doan go like that. He keeps insisting I go shoot one and decide for myself. The local bow store has a Reezen and a Monster set up ready to shoot.

ncboman

[swamp]

reezen 6.5 video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvvExeDrah0&feature=related

[Twanger]

Swamp - I don't stay "up" on all the latest bows. We do talk bows sometimes at Izaak Walton.

Cam profile makes a huge difference in how a bow behaves on a hunt. Hard cams buy you 10-12 fps, but they are harsh to draw and harsh to let down. If you shoot 5 times a week that's probably not a big deal because your muscle-memory will get really tuned into to the bow, but if you don't... it won't.

I'm not fond of a 'hard' cam and would rather shoot an 80lb bow with a soft cam than a 70lb bow with a hard cam. In fact, that's what I do!

The true test of a hunting bow is "can you let it down with a deer inside 20 yards and not spook the deer?" :D

[GF.]

Here's what I've fingered out on all that... you guys can correct me, disagree with me, or tell me I'm FOS as you see fit :D


When Swamp talks about a bow that draws real smoothly/easily until just before the cams roll over, that tells me it's a needlessly inefficient design, because it takes a long time to get up to peak force/resistance and then you stay there for only a very thin slice of the force curve.

From a physics standpoint - and limited to analyzing what the bow does, you'd want the resistance to be equal to the 'peak' weight starting the instant that the bowstring moves away from its natural resting position, because that would keep the force on the nock as high as possible for as long as possible, and that would deliver the most fps.

Now, what happens on the back end of the force curve is what Twang is talking about (sez I) because a really hard cam that rolls over and delivers that 85% let-off over a distance of just a few centimeters is gonna be a Mighty Mighty Mo-Fo to let down easily. And as one guy I talked to put it, if you let your anchor point drift forward a hair too far, that cam will throw you right out of the tree with no warning whatsoever. So a good hunting bow will be more gradual than a Speed-Freak Special in the way the force ramps up as you let 'er down...

Now here's the part I've never seen addressed, so I'm probably about to give away the Next Big Thing in cam design....

Biomechanically, we are 'weakest' at the ends of a muscle's range of motion and strongest somewhere in the middle. That has to do both with the amount of overlap between the individual muscle fibers and the lever arms created by the bones on either end of a joint and where those muscles attach. That (along with things like dislocating forces that ruin your joints) is why strength coaches and personal trainers and physical therapists tell you not to go too deep on your squats or (if you're re-habbing a bad shoulder for instance) not to take your wrist above shoulder height when you're lifting weights to the front or to the side...

Now, a compound takes really good care of you, by giving you a mechanical advantage at the 'full draw' end of your range of motion, and I don't think a bow has been made yet that ramps up quickly enough to cause you a problem as you begin the draw. In fact, I'm not sure it's really mechanically possible to get the force to ramp up any quicker than it does on current cam designs, so the answer on that end of things is just a lower brace height...right up 'til the point where the bow becomes unshootable...:rolleyes:

But what I'm working around to is there in the middle. Because when I look at the biomechanics of the draw cycle, I'm thinking that a flat top on the force curve is actually sub-optimal, except from a marketing standpoint.

You see, if the curves stays up at peak force for amost the entire draw cycle, you're going to get the highest speed rating, because you'll have as much force as possible (for that peak number) for as long as possible....

But if the cam designers were to focus more on smoothness and shootability, I'm thinkin' the top of the curve would still be a curve, taking advantage of the angles at which a shoulder joint provides the greatest mechanical advantage.

If they got that right,the force curve would act and feel flat, whereas the way they do it now, the 'flat' top (as measured by a scale) is probably some kind of two-humped camel's back, biomechanically. So if they corrected that, the shooter would be able to manage a higher peak weight more comfortably, and (hopefully) get the same feeps out of a smoother-shooting bow.

Only trouble is, the speed merchants would keep on bragging about AMO & IBO speed ratings (objectively measurable but not as important) and too many bowhunters would keep on listening to the numbers instead of thinking through what they really want a bow to do for them... :(

So, just to take this back to where I started..... Swamp was talking about a bow that peaks right before the cams break over, and wasn't I just describing something a lot like that?

Ummmmmm..... No.

Because if they get the top of that curve right, it'll feel flat, and he was talking about somthing that feels totally different....

Now, I know Walt has the physics thing pretty well dialed, so he's free to be the Perfesser and straighten me out; and you guys who've shot a lot of different bows can all weigh in, but I'm really thinkin' that our ideas about what the optimal force curve should look like are based a whole lot more on fluffing up the IBO number than really building a better-shooting bow.....

[swamp]

some graphs on valleys

http://www.huntersfriend.com/bow-review-400-fps-bow/400-fps-compound-bow.htm

[ncboman]

I was very tempted to stop and shoot that Reezen when I went by today. :rolleyes:

ncboman

[GF.]

My favorite line from that article Swamp posted.... Discussing the force curve on the ultimate superbow.....

" But of course, the bow would have no let-off, rendering it virtually unshootable. "

No let-off? You mean like the recurves that Olympic target shooters use? Somebody better tell 'em those bows are 'unshootable' before they hurt somebody with one o' those damn things!

Oh, well--" ,you say, "but we're talking about a 70-pound hunting bow..."

70 whole pounds? Wow, man, that's like 1/2 of what Howard Hill used to shoot :D

The thing is, though--seriously--that article discusses getting some kind of theoretical 'maximum peformance' out of a theoretical bow.

But we all know damn well that the bow isn't the weak link. It's the shooter.... So if the force curve could be re-worked to help wring the best performance out of the shooter instead of the highest number of feeps while staying under some arbitrary 'max' draw weight, then that might translate into a useable benefit in the field...

And frankly, at this point, I think they're making the bows nearly as efficient as can be, so the easier gain probably has to come from the shooter...

[ncboman]

after reading that twice, my cams hurt. :o

As Mathews goes, I understand the Reezen is priced within reason.

ncboman

[ncboman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPB8kwy-lZk

ncboman

[Greywolf]

Seems to be tuned well.

[ncboman]

Some circles are rating the S2 as a better hunting bow.

ncboman

[LampLighter]

if you let your anchor point drift forward a hair too far, that cam will throw you right out of the tree with no warning whatsoever.


Yep. My BowTech Alligence is like that. If I even let my thought wonder off of what I am doing, I must relax slightly because the thing rolls over and it is gone. Because of this, I only practice in the wide open. If I shot in a subdivision, I would likely kill Joe Blow on the next block :eek: . I use a hand held 3 finger release, so it is free to take off too.

[AK-49]

Yep. My BowTech Alligence is like that. If I even let my thought wonder off of what I am doing, I must relax slightly because the thing rolls over and it is gone. Because of this, I only practice in the wide open. If I shot in a subdivision, I would likely kill Joe Blow on the next block :eek: . I use a hand held 3 finger release, so it is free to take off too.

You have got to be BS'ing about your lack of being able to control that bow... you should try a mechanical release that gives you better control or switch to something else that will give you better control.

[LampLighter]

well, 95% of the time that it does roll over, I catch it without releasing. Coming from bows that are far less "on the edge" it was just a surprise . It takes keeping your mind on the subject. If you draw back, and start thinking about something else, you sometimes instinctively ease up a tad. Those close peaks will wake you up. Alot of bow shooting is mind/thought process involved. There have been several experts who put little posted notes on the inside limb with " smooth release" or "Breathe" notes to him/her self.

Also, my bow has a dead stop wall, right after the roll-over. I can adjust it or take it off, but I like it where it is. THAT is why my bow is so, " close to the edge." Can you comprehend the intent of that without running away with " other misinterprets" of "on the edge?"

AK, alot of folks go through things like this. They just don't post it. They are more concerned with "image." They won't post statements like that. They keep quiet. You should know by now that I don't care about that.

[AK-49]

I have test fired that bow and I can't imagine an arrow getting away in the way you are describing. Either you are overbowed or you don't have a release aid that allows you have good control. Sounds like you should look for a way to get control of that 5% situation as it could ruin your life and that of who ever gets shot "accidentally" by you.

[ncboman]

I sometimes have a bow try to take the arrow but with a wriststrap style release, that doan happen.

I have launched a few into infinity playing with a back tension release but that has nothing to do with the cam.

ncboman

[GF.]

Sounds like you should look for a way to get control of that 5% situation as it could ruin your life and that of who ever gets shot "accidentally" by you.

Oh, now... that's just crazy talk! :rolleyes:

Besides, we bowhunters don't need to worry about our 'image', fer chrissakes.. the bunny-huggers already love us to pieces, so it's not as if all those 'neutral' non-hunters are going to decide there's anything wrong with archery gear....

[AK-49]

crazy talk? launching an arrow into the unknown...

In the past I have accidentally released a few arrows into orbit while getting used to a new release aid but now I start the draw by pointing at the ground at a spot about 10 feet or so from me so if something gets away it sticks into the ground.

[LampLighter]

Ak, really with respect, it sounds as if you are trying to operate life with an owner's manual. Life is unique, and you must apply common sense to whatever situation comes along. There is no "step A, step b" to life's occurances. If my bow was dangerous I would get another.

When frying a turkey, you must make sure the turkey is not cold or wet, as it will cause the grease to splatter and catch fire. " oh no, :eek: now we can't fry any more turkeys." It just might, ennie weenie chance it might catch fire.

Sometimes I forget that this is a nation wide forum. We get complacent in that we assume we are talking to locals, or people who think the same. Take for instance, the other argument about home invasion. Man I realized, this is a nation wide forum. I forgot. A group of off duty cops at a bbq would have understood the tactical point I was making. Sorry I forget sometimes that all sorts of people from all sorts of areas read this forum. Northern people just think different than us Southerners. No right or wrong-just different. We don't operate by an owner's manual. We operate life with a little risk. Investers on wall street take risks every day.

Around here, we know our limits and we make it through life just fine. So think- that is all I ask- Think! before jumping to the keyboard. Them Southern boys just might have a grip on the situation.

[ncboman]

than us Southerners

:rolleyes:

ncboman

[LampLighter]

that would be an improper use of the smilie which signifies "sarcastic" as the quote continues to read, " no right or wrong, just different." Therefore the smilie is hereby considered null & void. Sorry.

[AK-49]

Lamplighter... just wondering, what percentage of unintentionally launched arrows do you consider as being acceptable?

[LampLighter]

I have not launched any in 2 years. I seem to have made the transition to the new bow. That was the point. It takes some getting used to a bow with a draw stop very near the peak roll-over.

% ? If you are where I am, I would hope 1 or 2 arrows would clue you in to doing something about it. All you will hit out here is a pine tree. If you are in the burbs, wow :eek: I would turn the power down until I got used to it.

[GF.]

I'm just wondering how many tens of thousands of arrows I've launched in the past 35 years... more'n just a couple, for damnsure....

Arrows that left the string 'unintentionally'... zero.

Arrows that left the string 'by accident'... zero.

Arrows that flew more than a foot or so off the mark... zero....

OK, inside of 50 yards, anyway. When you start making 100-yard lobs at crows while tradshooting, you're allowed to miss by a coupla paces long or short.... :D

'Accidental discharge' of an arrow is no more acceptable than AD of a bullet, and no more acceptable 'out in the sticks' than inside your own house. I don't care who you are, where you are or what the hell you think you're doing when it happens.

And BTW - one thing we tradshooters like to do is aim at the target the whole time, from the first millimeter of the draw. Saves a lot of consernation, especially if anything were -- somehow, inexplicably -- to go wrong....

[ncboman]

:rolleyes:

shoot 20 arrows thru your new compound with a backtension release and report back. :D

ncboman

[AK-49]

backtension release... see my post on resistance activated releases... carter has several different models... I would like to try one out some day

[LampLighter]

shoot 20 arrows thru your new compound with a backtension release and report back.

ncboman



It doesn't matter to that guy, nc. He has been on a mission for some time now. Just best to let him be and ignore him. Never argue with an armchair quarterback.

[GF.]

shoot 20 arrows thru your new compound with a backtension release and report back. :D



Hell, man, if they're that scary, I think I'll pass :D

I suppose maybe in a totally controlled environment like an indoor range, you could use something like that and not run too great a chance of killing anybody, but a 5% AD rate sounds like a product liability lawyer's retrirement plan in the making.:eek:

And yes, as a matter of fact I am on a mission to avoid committing wanton acts of stupidity with foreseeable disastrous outcomes. You got a problem widdat? :rolleyes:

[dave-t.]

A big part of target shooting is having a safe direction to shoot in. Over the many years I have shot bows, I've had a couple get away from me. Usually getting sloppy on the draw and having a finger where it shouldn't be.

That said, I have flat out launched one here and there just to see it go and how far.

If you put any thought into setting up your range, you should be safe.

And yes, I've missed a target or back stop from time to time, and I'm not too proud to admit it.

If you don't screw up from time to time, you're not doing much. :cool:

[AK-49]

knowing your back drop is important... when trying out a new release aid I think that its good to be within a few feet of the target and make sure that drawing hand doesnt smack you in the face if something does go wrong.

[GF.]

Intentionally launching one (into a safe area) just for grins is an imporatnt part of shooting a bow :cool:

Missing your target is how you learn. Missing your backstop is bound to happen from time to time. Keeps you honest, too :D

But that's all a far cry from an AD - especially if the bow happens to be pointed at a passing cloud when the thing gets away from you.

In the space that I have to shoot, I'm set up so that skipping a shot off the top of the target won't put anyone in imminent danger. And I've done it a few times already, because you only have to be off by about 4" for that to happen. Still scares the snot out of me every time it happens, though....

If I were trying to learn to use a back-tension release, you can bet your arse that I'd be pointing at the ground a few feet in front of me, and with nobody and nothin' behind my target. I just get a little irked with this BS about how 'oh, hell, everybody who's really a shooter has 'accidentally' launched a few into god-knows-where, but hey, no big deal....' :mad:

I know some people get a lot of satisfaction out of doing the macho redneck thing, but I can tell you straight up that it's not good PR for bowhunters or hunting (or even target archery) in general....

[LampLighter]

I shot the Drenalin today. I also picked up my new Delta treestand buck. I am going to assemble him in a few minutes when I get off this pc. I am going to put some reflector tacks in his eyes and set him out in the curve tonite.

The Drenalin was set to 63 lbs. we checked. I was not impressed. It seemed slow. My Alligence is set to about the same thing ( I need to recheck it) and it is much faster and much quieter. I am going back with MY aluminum arrows. The Drenalin also did have a slight rubber band sound. My aluminum arrows should absorb that.

[Hi Ball]

SWAMP, what I can tell you is that those friends of mine who have owned and shot a couple of Matthews bows find the service NOT to their likeing and now shoot other brands of mechanical bows.

I still have my old PSE and High Country, so I am not up to date on all the new technology. I's rather take one of my recurves or long bows on a hunt instead. I have far less to worry about using those type bows and never got into shooting 40 and 50 yards on big game animals simply put, to each his or her own in that respect.

[LampLighter]

Hi Ball

I think most of us would love to become confident with and hunt with, a recurve. It is probably good that we don't, because- you really have to be confident in yourself to hunt deer with the recurve. Those of you who do accomplish it, we envy yall. It is only fair to the deer that a clean shot be made, and I spent all summer 2 years ago trying it on paper. I just could not get consistant. Now, given I had a cheap recurve. My friend who shoots tournaments with recurve, came over one day with his fat risered Black Widow, and I was much, much better with it. I suppose if I bought one of those I could become confident.

Have you seen an old 80's video called Bowhunting October Whitetails?
Rick Blaze and one of the Wenzel bros. They make some fine shots with recurves and Oneida Eagles.

[GF.]

Worst thing about cheap recurves is the shelf design. If it looks like the butt end of a 2X4, you know you're in for trouble with it....

Looking at it from the side, good designs are radiused across the top, so that the arrow can only contact the shelf at exactly one point--that being located directly above the deepest part of the grip, since that's the pivot point for any torque that may be on the bow.

Likewise, the side of the 'sight window' will be radiused (some I've seen are actually bi-planar, forming a bit of a peak) again, such that the arrow contacts the bow at just the one point. That alone will do wonders for arrow flight, and that's a huge piece of the battle. Of course, even the cheapest bow out there can be hugely improved by slipping a couple of paper matchsticks under the rug rest, but if that leaves the arrow a full inch or so above your hand, you've still got real trouble unless you're using sights.

I'm not usually one for faulting the equipment for poor results when operator performance is the real issue, but when I upgraded from my Martin/Howatt Hunter (with which I used to be able to stack shafts pretty reliably into 2-3" at 45-50 yards) to Squatch's Bighorn, I went form spraying a mixed bunch of shafts into one big group of about a foot at 20 yards to shooting 2 tidy 3"-4" groups--about 8" apart-- with the shafts sorting themselves out by spine, I kind of became a believer.

Guys who own Widows swear by them, just like guys who own Matthews bows swear by Matthews. Word has it that they're fast, but there are other considerations, such as a nice, smooth draw and the arrows landing where you're looking. I'd like to shoot one and see how it suits me, but I'd not be seen parting with that kind of ka-ching until I had given one a pretty decent workout.

Hunting with a recurve's not hard. You just have to get inside about 20 yards and pick a spot :D

Seriously, though--assuming you have the discipline to pass on shots that don't feel right--the only 'trick' is focus. You can't focus when you're worried about missing the spot you've picked, and I'd say my eye starts wandering to everything that I might hit instead (like the time I double-checked where the deer's back-line was to make sure I didn't overshoot, and I just exactly grazed the backline--perfectly above the x-ring-- instead (which wasn't bad for a 15-20 yard shot on a trotting deer :cool: ). Problem is, once you start looking around, you're looking at the whole animal, and you can't reliably hit a big target when shooting instinctively. And other things can go bad that way, too, like the time a doe picked up a hind foot to take a step forward, and I came within a whisker of shooting her in the hoof. :eek:

But FWIW, shooting at the whole damn critter doesn't work too well with sights, either... Back when I was stacking shafts so nicely with the Hunter, I was shooting at tennis balls (and probably sighting down the shaft, to be honest ;) ). Either way... in that case, there's no much harm in looking at the whole thing, but that makes me a better 50-yard shooter on sparrows than on Elk :rolleyes:

Just gotta remember that when I'm hunting

[Hi Ball]

Swamp, no doubt Mathews makes a good bow but their customer service department is lacking abundance with customer understanding period. I myself would not purchase a Mathews bow!

I have shot many compound bows over the years and PSE has a good spont in my mind, also several others that are not made anymore. I myself like a bow that draws more natural, NOT stacking all at once at a particular point in the draw. Shooting targets I like a bow that is in the 30 to 40 pound range. Hunting I never need more than 60-lbs tops and don't plan on trying to pull more either. I'll just get a little closer in the woods to my intended animal.:)

I will admit 80% of my hunting with a bow, has been a recurve or long bow. There is just something about them that gathers my thoughts and gives me a good feeling when an arrow is let loose from the string. Shooting my Black Widow was like riding down main street on a Saturday night under all those lights!
A real feeling of pride, knowing you were shooting a top of the line piece of equipment at the range. Now my Fred Bear Kodiac Magnum was always a no holds barred type of a bow. It handled well in all kinds of weather and was light as a feather compared to any of my compounds. It sure never wore me out any and I didn't have to stop hunting because a wheel feel off or a handle snapped etc. and no need for any speacial gig to fix that compound either.

I remember two times cutting a string with my arrow in the wilderness country, never stopped me from hunting as I had always kept two extra strings on my person. Now as GF stated, it is not hard to hunt with a recurve or long bow, you just have to get close to your target and you won't need one of those range finders either, trust me on that part.